Ham to "share something" about Ark Park

He won't be saying that he has raised enough money for his idiotic ark park.

Karen S. said: He won't be saying that he has raised enough money for his idiotic ark park.

"We realize that it is wrong and unChristian to teach children utterly untrue things, along with techniques to use to avoid truth, so it's a good thing that we never received the money for such a transparent sham."

For another of the "we won't hear" speculations.

Glen Davidson

ken shares a lot.

It's how to get him to stop sharing that would be the trick.

Ham is an asshole, who is hated even by other Christians (CMI, ICR, Pat Robertson, the home schooling convention that kicked his ass out the door, theistic evolutionists whom he's attacked, and, I suspect, Jason Lisle.) Sure he's got corrupt Republican pols on the gravy train, but if you piss off everyone you come into contact with, sooner or later there's no one left to lie to.

ksplawn said: You never know. They might have gotten a flood of donations.

Henry J said:

ksplawn said: You never know. They might have gotten a flood of donations.

Somebody sent in a cubit or two?

Perhaps he's going to announce that they've bought their first pairs of animals. Because of the "land of milk and honey" references, they've started with a pair of cows and a pair of bees.

Kevin B said: Perhaps he's going to announce that they've bought their first pairs of animals. Because of the "land of milk and honey" references, they've started with a pair of cows and a pair of bees.

Hmmm...I think the imported Ham learned something important from the debate. He learned that exposure, regardless
of whether negative, positive or both is good for him. 1% of the population is 3,000,000. He is the 'rap star' who
realizes a bad guy reputation enhances his sales more than harm them.

I think this announcement/ tease before the press release about the Ark Park is just that...gaining a larger audience and
his announcement is not going to be liked by science promoters and those who see what a danger the likes of Ham is to
reason and public education.

Maybe he is going to "share" the recognized limits of radio carbon dating. Seriously, why has no one called him out on his blatant dishonesty? Doesn't anyone realize that he was lying? Doesn't anyone know enough science to call "foul" when they see one? I can understand why the rubes would allow themselves to be fooled, but why would anyone else go along with such absurd nonsense? If a real scientist tried to pull the crap that he pulled, they would become an instant laughing stock, their reputation would be ruined and no one would ever trust them again. Why does lying for jesus get a pass? Every time he mentions the debate this should be thrown into his face.

If he did somehow manage to leverage the media exposure from the debate in order to fund his lie from the pit of hell ark park, I guess Bill is going to feel pretty stupid. Hopefully, he will be announcing that the project is now dead for good.

I'm betting the "announcement" will amount to little more than a money-beg.

I bet this bozo sells cheap Rolexes, too.

... a pair of cows

yeah, that'll work!

usenettroll215 said: HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN HOW HUMANS HAVE ORIGINS IN THE DEVONIAN? I FOUND 3,000 FOSSILS FROM DEVONIAN STRATA FROM GREENLAND, AND THEY WERE SENT AND TESTED AT HARVARD AND FOUND TO BE 365 m.y.a. AND 100% HUMAN! HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT! EVIDENCE FOR THIS MAJESTIC EVOLUTION DESTROYER CAN BE FOUND AT: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.flame/L2xTnsOpA9E https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sci.bio.paleontology/ggJHQiohh_8

DS said: DID you have them radio carbon dated?

eric said:

DS said: DID you have them radio carbon dated?

He tried, but the samples were contaminated by excessive capitalization. When that happens, there is nothing you can do except throw them out.

Checking a little on the web...seems the imported Ham received an award at the Nashville Convention Of Religious Broadcasters.
Best Use Of Social Media.

Receiving the award for "Best Use of Social Media" at #NRB14 pic.twitter.com/mlyg9xoPQc
https://twitter.com/aigkenham/status/438330261403492353/photo/1

eric said:

DS said: DID you have them radio carbon dated?

He tried, but the samples were contaminated by excessive capitalization. When that happens, there is nothing you can do except throw them out.

Charley Horse said: Checking a little on the web...seems the imported Ham received an award at the Nashville Convention Of Religious Broadcasters. Best Use Of Social Media. Receiving the award for "Best Use of Social Media" at #NRB14 pic.twitter.com/mlyg9xoPQc https://twitter.com/aigkenham/status/438330261403492353/photo/1

DS said:

eric said:

DS said: DID you have them radio carbon dated?

He tried, but the samples were contaminated by excessive capitalization. When that happens, there is nothing you can do except throw them out.

Really? He tried to prove that human remains were 365 million years old using radio carbon dating! Literally unbelieveable.

ksplawn said:

DS said:

eric said:

DS said: DID you have them radio carbon dated?

He tried, but the samples were contaminated by excessive capitalization. When that happens, there is nothing you can do except throw them out.

Really? He tried to prove that human remains were 365 million years old using radio carbon dating! Literally unbelieveable.

Yeah, everybody knows radios weren't invented back then!

DS said:

ksplawn said:

DS said:

eric said:

DS said: DID you have them radio carbon dated?

He tried, but the samples were contaminated by excessive capitalization. When that happens, there is nothing you can do except throw them out.

Really? He tried to prove that human remains were 365 million years old using radio carbon dating! Literally unbelieveable.

Yeah, everybody knows radios weren't invented back then!

Really? I seem to remember that the Flintstones had a car, a radio, a record player and a dishwasher. Of course they also had a pet dinosaur, so go figure.

I wonder how many investors Noah conned into his “ark encounter,” knowing full well what their “payback” would be.

SWT said:

Kevin B said: Perhaps he's going to announce that they've bought their first pairs of animals. Because of the "land of milk and honey" references, they've started with a pair of cows and a pair of bees.

Well, it does seem they'll go to great lengths to get some media buzz ...

You're kidding, right? The Flintstones obviously live in a post-apocalyptic world where the blue-collar survivors struggle to reclaim the technologies and lifestyles they lost in the global disaster. This includes the mutant reptiles they use to replace the small mammals they used to have as house pets. Of course, the elites also survived, living in high-tech cities far above the wasteland below ... they're depicted in The Jetsons.

I just spoke with Zach Logan, a bond associate at Ross Sinclaire and Associates–the firm that has been organizing the Ark Encounter municipal bond sales. He can be reached at 1-800-543-1831 or his cell 513-381-3939. He stated that they were just wrapping up the bond issuing today [February 24], and that–-while he didn’t have all the final numbers–-it appeared to have been successful. Ken Ham also stated in his blog today that he would have an announcement regarding the Ark Encounter in a few days. Doesn’t look good, but still hoping that it wasn’t successful.

Surely the next project, after Ark Park, should be a new Tower of Babel. Much less is known about the Tower, so Ham and friends can get away with lots of design cheats.

But unlike a really big wooden boat that eventually rots, the rubble of a Tower that reached up to Heaven ought to be very evident to archaeologists. So where is it? It was built after the Flood. So you can't use that excuse for not finding it. It was built of stone or brick, not wood that rots, so the rubble should be very evident. It wasn't small, like a ziggurat, so the rubble pile should be HUGE. Where is it?

Inquiring minds want to know.

I think that the fact that the hambone could not build an ark that even floats for forty five million dollars is all the evidence that you need that a stone age family with no modern tools could not have produced such a vessel. If he does build the park it will be an monument to the absurdity of the entire story.

Would it be possible to find out exactly where the money miraculously came from so suddenly, since they are supposedly public bonds?

I think that the fact that the hambone could not build an ark that even floats for forty five million dollars is all the evidence that you need that a stone age family with no modern tools could not have produced such a vessel.

Karen S. said:

I think that the fact that the hambone could not build an ark that even floats for forty five million dollars is all the evidence that you need that a stone age family with no modern tools could not have produced such a vessel.

It's also evidence of Ham's lack of faith.

Over at AIG, the hambone is ranting about the new movie about Noah. Apparently it isn't biblical enough for him:

http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/blogs/ken-ham/2013/11/19/dont-be-taken-in-by-the-noah-movies-promotion/

I guess he just can't stand the competition, or the thought that anyone else could make a movie without consulting him. Why would a fictional movie have to remain true to the bible? Why would it have to promote one particular religious view? Why does Ham think that he can dictate morality, ethics, history and entertainment to everyone else?

i guess Ham is afraid that people will get the wrong idea about the magic flood. Maybe he is afraid that they will think that god made a big mistake. Unfortunately, this movie will probably have the opposite effect. People will probably watch it and think that the flood was an actual historical event, after all, they saw it in a movie, so it must be real. Just like when Moses parted the Red Sea in the Ten Commandments. Right. I bet Ham didn't like the E. G. Robinson character in that film either.

DS said: Why does Ham think that he can dictate morality, ethics, history and entertainment to everyone else?

DS said: ...after all, they saw it in a movie, so it must be real.

Paul Burnett said:

DS said: ...after all, they saw it in a movie, so it must be real.

Of course this is true - see D. W. Griffith ("The Birth of a Nation") and Leni Riefenstahl ("Triumph of the Will").

Matt Young said: Daniel Webb, a commenter at the Sensuous Curmudgeon, says

I just spoke with Zach Logan, a bond associate at Ross Sinclaire and Associates–the firm that has been organizing the Ark Encounter municipal bond sales. He can be reached at 1-800-543-1831 or his cell 513-381-3939. He stated that they were just wrapping up the bond issuing today [February 24], and that–-while he didn’t have all the final numbers–-it appeared to have been successful. Ken Ham also stated in his blog today that he would have an announcement regarding the Ark Encounter in a few days. Doesn’t look good, but still hoping that it wasn’t successful.

Presumably that means they have raised the $45.5 million, else the bonds would have to be called (and the money returned).

https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawmSOoisp2Oqk5_gBhZFwlSisb7SMhyTjFs said:

Paul Burnett said:

DS said: ...after all, they saw it in a movie, so it must be real.

Of course this is true - see D. W. Griffith ("The Birth of a Nation") and Leni Riefenstahl ("Triumph of the Will").

Or Braveheart. As a Scot that understands a little of my own country's history, I weep every time I see this abomination. It's so not true it's not even wrong. Gibson as Ham, but with a big budget.

All it takes is one million people to send 45 dollars each to Ham, and he’s got 45 million dollars.

The live stream, hosted by Ken Ham, president/CEO of Answers in Genesis (the builder of the Ark Encounter), will take place on Thursday, February 27, 2014, at 7 p.m. EST. Watch it live at www.ArkEncounter.com.

Matt Young said:

All it takes is one million people to send 45 dollars each to Ham, and he’s got 45 million dollars.

Mathematically, yes, but there is a minimum purchase for the bond offering. I do not remember precisely, but I think it is $1000; certainly not $45. Additionally, you probably have to be considered an experienced investor to even be allowed to buy such junk.

No news yet? It's been the next couple of days.

"I seem to remember that the Flintstones had a car, a radio, a record player and a dishwasher."
You left out the under the sink garbage disposal.

“Surely the next project, after Ark Park, should be a new Tower of Babel.”
That has already been done. Well, sort of, since it is still scattered in pieces at several locations like AIG, ICR, UD, etc.

Zetopan said: "I seem to remember that the Flintstones had a car, a radio, a record player and a dishwasher." You left out the under the sink garbage disposal. “Surely the next project, after Ark Park, should be a new Tower of Babel.” That has already been done. Well, sort of, since it is still scattered in pieces at several locations like AIG, ICR, UD, etc.

diogeneslamp0 said:

https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawmSOoisp2Oqk5_gBhZFwlSisb7SMhyTjFs said:

Paul Burnett said:

DS said: ...after all, they saw it in a movie, so it must be real.

Of course this is true - see D. W. Griffith ("The Birth of a Nation") and Leni Riefenstahl ("Triumph of the Will").

Or Braveheart. As a Scot that understands a little of my own country's history, I weep every time I see this abomination. It's so not true it's not even wrong. Gibson as Ham, but with a big budget.

What is it that infuriates you the most? Besides the whole fucking the princess thing, and screaming "Freedom! Freeedom!" after the executioner had cut his dingle off.

harold said:

Matt Young said: Daniel Webb, a commenter at the Sensuous Curmudgeon, says

I just spoke with Zach Logan, a bond associate at Ross Sinclaire and Associates–the firm that has been organizing the Ark Encounter municipal bond sales. He can be reached at 1-800-543-1831 or his cell 513-381-3939. He stated that they were just wrapping up the bond issuing today [February 24], and that–-while he didn’t have all the final numbers–-it appeared to have been successful. Ken Ham also stated in his blog today that he would have an announcement regarding the Ark Encounter in a few days. Doesn’t look good, but still hoping that it wasn’t successful.

Presumably that means they have raised the $45.5 million, else the bonds would have to be called (and the money returned).

There is no chance that Ham will fail to raise as much money as he wishes. Whether he uses it to build the Ark thing eventually or just keeps stringing suckers along is his call. We can, it seems, make some progress in things like preventing science denial from being enshrined in official public school science curricula. As for purely private, legal ventures, there are just far too many stupid people for Ham to fail. (Yes, Ham has gotten some questionable involvement of rural local governments here, but he doesn't depend on that.) All it takes is one million people to send 45 dollars each to Ham, and he's got 45 million dollars. There are 300 million people in the US. Ham probably believes himself at the conscious level, but unconsciously, he runs a brilliant scam, all the more brilliant for being something that can never be shut down. He craftily moved from Australia to a much larger market.

Stephen A Yeats said:

diogeneslamp0 said:

https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawmSOoisp2Oqk5_gBhZFwlSisb7SMhyTjFs said:

Paul Burnett said:

DS said: ...after all, they saw it in a movie, so it must be real.

Of course this is true - see D. W. Griffith ("The Birth of a Nation") and Leni Riefenstahl ("Triumph of the Will").

Or Braveheart. As a Scot that understands a little of my own country's history, I weep every time I see this abomination. It's so not true it's not even wrong. Gibson as Ham, but with a big budget.

What is it that infuriates you the most? Besides the whole fucking the princess thing, and screaming "Freedom! Freeedom!" after the executioner had cut his dingle off.

What annoys me, is that Stirling was where Wallace and the Scots basically trapped the English on a narrow bridge, then used halberds etc as can openers to get at the soft insides, the use of the schiltrom (big long trees as a hedgehog) was used by Robert the Bruce at Bannockburn if I recall correctly. So that, and the princess thing, and his fathers "Scottish accent", and having some great Scottish actors (Brian Cox, etc) involved in this dogs breakfast. Oh and from the English side having Longshanks heave his sons favourite out of the window, when again if I recall correctly that guy outlived him.

Ken Ham has just concluded his streamed press conference, and they claim to have the funding. They will break ground in May and open for business in summer, 2016. They would not mind collecting another $15 million, however.

The conference had little else of interest, besides blaming the "atheists" for standing in the way and the press for getting everything wrong and in particular claiming that the City of Williamstown stood to lose a lot of money if the project failed. I can, however, report that PT noted that fact correctly.

I will end by observing that not everyone who disagrees with Mr. Ham is an atheist; we oppose the Ark Park not because of anti-Christian sentiment (hatred, in Mr. Ham's lexicon) but because it will peddle pseudoscience and cloak it in religion.

Of course William Wallace was a Scottish lowland knight who never wore a kilt in his life, far less woad, and who fought mounted in mail as became a gentleman. He wasn't fighting for anything that resembled an independent nation - nobody could at that time, the nation-state not yet existing as a mental concept - but it is fair, I think, to regard him as fighting for Scots independence, meaning the right of Scots gents to be ruled by other Scots gents, rather than by an Englishman. "Freedom" is another matter altogether. By the standards of what is meant by "freedom" today, nobody in a medieval society was free, Magna Carta's "free man" notwithstanding. (It meant "not a serf".) Hell, nobody was free in the seventeenth century, even, not at least until 1688, by which time the concept at least could be said to exist, for some.

And ah, the defenestration of Ham! The images that evokes! Although you have to remember that the original started not one, but two different religious wars, a couple of centuries apart. No doubt our boy Ken would just love that idea.

SWT said:

eric said:

DS said: DID you have them radio carbon dated?

He tried, but the samples were contaminated by excessive capitalization. When that happens, there is nothing you can do except throw them out.

And with this, eric wins the Internet.

Apparently, Ham is claiming that the public debate with Bill Nye helped to get the funding in.

It might be true, but from my experience with fundraisers, if something has enough "popular support," there's usually a quick deluge of last-minute funding anyway.

Kevin Peter Alexander said:

SWT said:

eric said:

DS said: DID you have them radio carbon dated?

He tried, but the samples were contaminated by excessive capitalization. When that happens, there is nothing you can do except throw them out.

And with this, eric wins the Internet.

It was a misprint. He had them carbon copy dated If you cc them to ten friends then good fortune will be showered on your orc encounter.

FL said:

Ken Ham has just concluded his streamed press conference, and they claim to have the funding. They will break ground in May and open for business in summer, 2016.

:-)

W. H. Heydt said:

FL said:

Ken Ham has just concluded his streamed press conference, and they claim to have the funding. They will break ground in May and open for business in summer, 2016.

:-)

Don't get too excited. P. T. Barnum gave the definitive description of the underlying process.

They don't need to build the Ark to prove God to me like they said "Jesus is the door" it's not walking into that particular Ark that is the door to salvation, that I know about. But I do hope people have a great time at the park, it seems to me to be a good family outing.

Marilyn said: They don't need to build the Ark to prove God to me like they said "Jesus is the door" it's not walking into that particular Ark that is the door to salvation, that I know about. But I do hope people have a great time at the park, it seems to me to be a good family outing.

Tenncrain said:

harold said:

Matt Young said: Daniel Webb, a commenter at the Sensuous Curmudgeon, says

I just spoke with Zach Logan, a bond associate at Ross Sinclaire and Associates–the firm that has been organizing the Ark Encounter municipal bond sales. He can be reached at 1-800-543-1831 or his cell 513-381-3939. He stated that they were just wrapping up the bond issuing today [February 24], and that–-while he didn’t have all the final numbers–-it appeared to have been successful. Ken Ham also stated in his blog today that he would have an announcement regarding the Ark Encounter in a few days. Doesn’t look good, but still hoping that it wasn’t successful.

Presumably that means they have raised the $45.5 million, else the bonds would have to be called (and the money returned).

There is no chance that Ham will fail to raise as much money as he wishes. Whether he uses it to build the Ark thing eventually or just keeps stringing suckers along is his call. We can, it seems, make some progress in things like preventing science denial from being enshrined in official public school science curricula. As for purely private, legal ventures, there are just far too many stupid people for Ham to fail. (Yes, Ham has gotten some questionable involvement of rural local governments here, but he doesn't depend on that.) All it takes is one million people to send 45 dollars each to Ham, and he's got 45 million dollars. There are 300 million people in the US. Ham probably believes himself at the conscious level, but unconsciously, he runs a brilliant scam, all the more brilliant for being something that can never be shut down. He craftily moved from Australia to a much larger market.

I regret to say that some of my relatives are among the most ardent supporters of AIG/ICR. This is even when I and a sibling and a few other relatives have abandoned the YEC bandwagon. Little I and other ex-YECs say sinks into them. Morton's Demon is in control. I started the long process of deconverting in 2005, so I'm one of the few in my family not to have gone to the Creation "Museum" but I admit that as a kid that I eagerly awaited in the mailbox (before the internet became popular, and my folks did not get internet on purpose to keep out blaspemous info) the latest issue of ICR's publications such as their Impact articles.

Mike Zovath, the Ark project coordinator, said the minimum amount was sold, which constituted most of the bonds, and AiG purchased some. They did not provide exact figures

Dave Luckett said: And ah, the defenestration of Ham!

SWT said:

Dave Luckett said: And ah, the defenestration of Ham!

Since i don't wish Ham any personal harm, all I can say is that I hope nobody finds a window of opportunity ...

I don't follow these things closely, but hasn't Ham been defenestrated (figuratively) from various Australian and American creationist organizations, home-school associations, etc.?

He's probably used to it by now.

SWT said:

Dave Luckett said: And ah, the defenestration of Ham!

Since i don't wish Ham any personal harm, all I can say is that I hope nobody finds a window of opportunity ...

daoudmbo said:

SWT said:

Dave Luckett said: And ah, the defenestration of Ham!

Since i don't wish Ham any personal harm, all I can say is that I hope nobody finds a window of opportunity ...

Not wishing harm on anyone, but still, "defenestration" is a great sounding word! (and could probably still be quite comical if it's a first-floor window) :)

The Ark’s website says it has raised $14.4 million in private donations toward the $24.5 million needed to build the ark alone as part of a theme park that is expected to cost more than $120 million. The complete first phase totals more than $70 million, and officials said they sold most of the $62 million in municipal bonds offered to investors [my italics].

As soon I saw the "some", I was curious about how much money AIG pumped into the park at the last minute. I would not be too surprised to hear AIG put in a third or more of the total $24.5 million.

I'm sure the AIG lawyers have looked over the situation very well and everything is on the up and up, but what is the legality of a non-profit entity giving to a for-profit entity when the same company has interests in both entities? That has got to get the attention of government agencies.

Kevin B said:

daoudmbo said:

SWT said:

Dave Luckett said: And ah, the defenestration of Ham!

Since i don't wish Ham any personal harm, all I can say is that I hope nobody finds a window of opportunity ...

Not wishing harm on anyone, but still, "defenestration" is a great sounding word! (and could probably still be quite comical if it's a first-floor window) :)

Didn't Noah defenestrate both a raven and a dove?

Americans United for Separation of Church and State weigh in on the latest news here

Didn’t Noah defenestrate both a raven and a dove?

Kevin B said: Didn't Noah defenestrate both a raven and a dove?

Paul Burnett said: Language was so imprecise that long ago it might have been a bat.

Unclean. Leviticus 11:13-19, the last in the list.

Oh, and "Leviticus" means "that which pertains to the Levites", that is, the priests. The book is mostly instructions for what and how things may be eaten and/or sacrificed, plus ritual observances and what passes for a legal code. There was nobody called "Leviticus".

These are said to be the laws given by Moses from God on Mt Sinai, but it is plain that they are mostly concerned with people who live in houses in villages or towns and who farm land with fixed boundaries. They also assume a settled priestly class which is due a tithe of crops, and they refer to vines and olives. Of course we must assume that Moses knew the future, or at least that God did; but most of it would have made little sense to people who had been forty years wandering in a desert.

Marilyn said: They don't need to build the Ark to prove God to me like they said "Jesus is the door" it's not walking into that particular Ark that is the door to salvation, that I know about. But I do hope people have a great time at the park, it seems to me to be a good family outing.

Dave Luckett said: Unclean. Leviticus 11:13-19, the last in the list.

Dave Luckett said: These are said to be the laws given by Moses from God on Mt Sinai, but it is plain that they are mostly concerned with people who live in houses in villages or towns and who farm land with fixed boundaries. They also assume a settled priestly class which is due a tithe of crops, and they refer to vines and olives. Of course we must assume that Moses knew the future, or at least that God did; but most of it would have made little sense to people who had been forty years wandering in a desert.

Dave Luckett said: Oh, and "Leviticus" means "that which pertains to the Levites", that is, the priests. The book is mostly instructions for what and how things may be eaten and/or sacrificed, plus ritual observances and what passes for a legal code.

Marilyn said:

Marilyn said: But I do hope people have a great time at the [Ark] park

I hope there is more than one door though. I hope the design has been checked over thoroughly by the Fire Service Department.

Could Ham of taken out a mortgage on the Creation pseudoMuseum to complete the financing?

Could Ham of taken out a mortgage on the Creation pseudoMuseum to complete the financing?

Grant County News says that the Ark will be built; groundbreaking in May.

But that's too late for them to avoid the deluge of April showers!

As of fiscal 2012, AIG had assets of around $17m. The source I found was at Charity Navigator dot org. They had a deficit too. (http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=5214#.UxexMjK9KSM)

harold said:

Tenncrain said:

harold said:

Matt Young said: Daniel Webb, a commenter at the Sensuous Curmudgeon, says

I just spoke with Zach Logan, a bond associate at Ross Sinclaire and Associates–the firm that has been organizing the Ark Encounter municipal bond sales. He can be reached at 1-800-543-1831 or his cell 513-381-3939. He stated that they were just wrapping up the bond issuing today [February 24], and that–-while he didn’t have all the final numbers–-it appeared to have been successful. Ken Ham also stated in his blog today that he would have an announcement regarding the Ark Encounter in a few days. Doesn’t look good, but still hoping that it wasn’t successful.

Presumably that means they have raised the $45.5 million, else the bonds would have to be called (and the money returned).

There is no chance that Ham will fail to raise as much money as he wishes. Whether he uses it to build the Ark thing eventually or just keeps stringing suckers along is his call. We can, it seems, make some progress in things like preventing science denial from being enshrined in official public school science curricula. As for purely private, legal ventures, there are just far too many stupid people for Ham to fail. (Yes, Ham has gotten some questionable involvement of rural local governments here, but he doesn't depend on that.) All it takes is one million people to send 45 dollars each to Ham, and he's got 45 million dollars. There are 300 million people in the US. Ham probably believes himself at the conscious level, but unconsciously, he runs a brilliant scam, all the more brilliant for being something that can never be shut down. He craftily moved from Australia to a much larger market.

I regret to say that some of my relatives are among the most ardent supporters of AIG/ICR. This is even when I and a sibling and a few other relatives have abandoned the YEC bandwagon. Little I and other ex-YECs say sinks into them. Morton's Demon is in control. I started the long process of deconverting in 2005, so I'm one of the few in my family not to have gone to the Creation "Museum" but I admit that as a kid that I eagerly awaited in the mailbox (before the internet became popular, and my folks did not get internet on purpose to keep out blaspemous info) the latest issue of ICR's publications such as their Impact articles.

Congratulations,

and mild apologies for my use of the term "stupid" instead of the more accurate term "helplessly biased" in my original comment.

I'm a "latecomer" to awareness of political ID/creationism; I became aware of it in 1999 during the original Kansas school board controversy. Thus, ironically, although I never thought of it this way before, I am a product of the successful publicity campaign of the DI during the late 1990's and early 2000's. Although ID was not directly mentioned in Kansas in 1999, the activities of the DI were a major driver of that event, and almost all the supporters of the anti-science curriculum (which technically merely censored all mention of evolution) would spout memorized ID slogans. (Technically I was quite aware of Jack Chick and old time fundamentalists, but had mentally categorized that stuff in the "people who obsessively believe in alien abductions or Sasquatch" mental category.) So it's quite interesting for me to learn of someone who saw the light since I became aware of this issue. In other words, I was commenting here while you were still a creationist.

Carl, a quick OT mention, but sincere thanks for your congrats elsewhere on me ending my bachelor days! I feel very fortunate, indeed.

DS said: Over at AIG, the hambone is ranting about the new movie about Noah. Apparently it isn't biblical enough for him: http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/blogs/ken-ham/2013/11/19/dont-be-taken-in-by-the-noah-movies-promotion/ I guess he just can't stand the competition, or the thought that anyone else could make a movie without consulting him. Why would a fictional movie have to remain true to the bible? Why would it have to promote one particular religious view? Why does Ham think that he can dictate morality, ethics, history and entertainment to everyone else? i guess Ham is afraid that people will get the wrong idea about the magic flood. Maybe he is afraid that they will think that god made a big mistake. Unfortunately, this movie will probably have the opposite effect. People will probably watch it and think that the flood was an actual historical event, after all, they saw it in a movie, so it must be real. Just like when Moses parted the Red Sea in the Ten Commandments. Right. I bet Ham didn't like the E. G. Robinson character in that film either.

harold said:

Marilyn said: They don't need to build the Ark to prove God to me like they said "Jesus is the door" it's not walking into that particular Ark that is the door to salvation, that I know about. But I do hope people have a great time at the park, it seems to me to be a good family outing.

It's a terrible family outing. It misinforms about science. A church picnic can be a perfectly good family outing. I'm not against Jesus or religion (I am against bad behavior in the name of those things, but that's different). There is no need to mix Christianity with dogmatic science denial that is rejected by most Christian theologians anyway.

Kevin B said:

daoudmbo said:

SWT said:

Dave Luckett said: And ah, the defenestration of Ham!

Since i don't wish Ham any personal harm, all I can say is that I hope nobody finds a window of opportunity ...

Not wishing harm on anyone, but still, "defenestration" is a great sounding word! (and could probably still be quite comical if it's a first-floor window) :)

Didn't Noah defenestrate both a raven and a dove?

stevaroni said:

Paul Burnett said: Language was so imprecise that long ago it might have been a bat.

IIRC, one of the books* of the Pentateuch defines bats as birds, but I forget, are bats supposed to be clean or unclean birds?

Tenncrain said: There are now a couple of ex-YECs here on PT. Check out David MacMillan's recent posts as well as Matt Young's thread about David: http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2014/01/former-creation.html It's good to have David on our side.

Just like when Moses parted the Red Sea in the Ten Commandments.

DS said: Over at AIG, the hambone is ranting about the new movie about Noah. Apparently it isn't biblical enough for him:

I would like to introduce you to two pretty amazing kids. One a senior, and one a sophomore in high school. They have been homeschooled their entire education and are quite well read, as well as well travelled in that their father is a retired US Air Force pilot. These kids pooled their savings and purchased $5,000 worth of Ark Bonds. This was their decision fully supported by their parents. A true widow and the mite story. For Hannah's senior trip, she has chosen to visit the Creation Museum. The family will do so in May. I praise the Lord for the number of young people who are not only being impacted for the Lord by AiG, but are active in defending the Christian faith against the attacks by secularists and compromising Christians.

Matt Young said: Someone with more patience than I seems to subscribe to Ken Ham's Facebook page and sent me the following, which I print with no comment:

I would like to introduce you to two pretty amazing kids. One a senior, and one a sophomore in high school. They have been homeschooled their entire education and are quite well read, as well as well travelled in that their father is a retired US Air Force pilot. These kids pooled their savings and purchased $5,000 worth of Ark Bonds. This was their decision fully supported by their parents. A true widow and the mite story. For Hannah's senior trip, she has chosen to visit the Creation Museum. The family will do so in May. I praise the Lord for the number of young people who are not only being impacted for the Lord by AiG, but are active in defending the Christian faith against the attacks by secularists and compromising Christians.

Matt Young said: Someone with more patience than I seems to subscribe to Ken Ham's Facebook page and sent me the following, which I print with no comment:

I would like to introduce you to two pretty amazing kids. One a senior, and one a sophomore in high school. They have been homeschooled their entire education and are quite well read, as well as well travelled in that their father is a retired US Air Force pilot. These kids pooled their savings and purchased $5,000 worth of Ark Bonds. This was their decision fully supported by their parents. A true widow and the mite story. For Hannah's senior trip, she has chosen to visit the Creation Museum. The family will do so in May. I praise the Lord for the number of young people who are not only being impacted for the Lord by AiG, but are active in defending the Christian faith against the attacks by secularists and compromising Christians.