Freshwater: The police report

Posted 8 February 2010 by Richard B. Hoppe

I've received a copy of the police report on the incident described in Dumpster diving for docs. It is a "found property" report, not a criminal complaint. The report contains a 3 page typed account of the incident by Don Matolyak, Freshwater's pastor. The main message of the circulating story I described in my earlier post--the mysterious appearance of new evidence from the district via a cloak and dagger route--is confirmed by Matolyak's statement, but a number of details differ. I'll list them below the fold, based on Matolyak's statement in the police report. 1. The events occurred the evening of Tuesday and Wednesday, Feb 2 and 3, not Feb 4 and 5. 2. Freshwater was out of town when he got a voicemail telling him about the materials, and so was not involved in retrieving them. Nor was Hamilton involved in the actual retrieval of the materials; he came into the incident later, on February 3. According to Matolyak's account he received a call from Freshwater the evening of Tuesday, February 2. Freshwater was out of town, and told Matolyak that he had received an anonymous message on his voicemail, the caller apparently trying to disguise his identity. According to Matolyak's account, the caller claimed that

"... there was more information-materials for John. They would be found in a plastic bag by a garbage can at the corner of Mt. Vernon Avenue and Division Street. We assumed this was the person who sent the previous letter in the mail to John & School Superintendent, Steve Short.

The corner of South Division Street and Mt. Vernon Avenue is near the high school and middle school, less than half a mile away from them. It's open terrain, with a city park with softball fields in the northeast quadrant, the high school baseball and soccer fields in the southeast quadrant, a farm field (now snow covered, but with corn or soybeans in season) in the southwest quadrant, and a batting cage and miniature golf course in the northwest quadrant. The "previous letter" phrase refers to an anonymous letter sent to Freshwater and Superintendent Short shortly before the last session of the hearing was due to resume in January but which was postponed after 2.5 hours of attorney conferences. It turns out that anonymous letter was the stimulus for the postponement of the hearing that day. 3. In picking up the materials Matolyak was accompanied by a man named Charles Fisher. According to Matolyak's account, Fisher accompanied him at Freshwater's suggestion:

John asked me to get Charles Fisher and go check this out since he [Freshwater] was in Dover [Ohio]. Charles is very trustworthy and has his Conceal Carry (sic) permit so he would be armed in case of trouble.

Now think about that last sentence for a moment. That's an indication of the paranoia that is characteristic of the conspiracy theorists in this affair. And contrast it with another passage from the next paragraph of Matolyak's statement:

As I drove to the home of Charles Fisher I questioned whether we should contact the police. I wondered if we would be facing some kind of danger as the person who did this would be expecting John Freshwater to be the one to follow up on the voice mail message. But I decided it wouldn't be necessary to contact the police because we were just on a factfinding mission.

He takes an armed escort, but decides not to contact the cops. 4. The materials were not in a dumpster at the high school, but were by a trash can in an area near it, in an "old black computer bag" inside a plastic bag. On top of the bag was a letter addressed to Freshwater. The police report does not contain the contents of that letter. The bag contained a 3"-4" stack of papers and a "large number of photographs of items from John's room." It also contained three stopwatches, a whistle, and $45 in cash. 5. Fisher and Matolyak took the bag and contents to Matolyak's church, where they rummaged through the materials, describing them to Freshwater on the telephone and photographing them. "One letter was placed in a sealed envelope and left for Pastor Paula Powell to scan and E-fax to Kelly Hamilton when she got to the office Wednesday morning." Matolyak then locked the material in his office. 6. One Wednesday evening, Matolyak, Hamilton, and Freshwater went through the materials. Freshwater identified all but about 300 photographs as having come from his room. Fisher came by and showed them the photographs he had taken at the original scene and later. 7. Hamilton then informed the others that they might need to make a police report. Hamilton and said he'd instruct them later on what to do. The complaint/report was made by Matolyak at 1536 on Thursday, February 4, and notes that the PD took custody of the property and place it in evidence for safekeeping. I presume that means in the PD evidence room. Steve Short, Superintendent of Schools, was notified of the report number. This is now officially past bizarre. It has mysterious phone calls, midnight missions with an armed escort, and hundreds of photographs and a stack of documents in a black bag in a parking lot. (Incidentally, someone should tell Mr. Fisher that a Concealed Carry permit in Ohio is not a license to act as an armed private security guard, and he should get competent legal advice before depending on his permit like that again.) In contrast to the earlier story I described, there was no dumpster diving or discarding of relevant documents. This now looks more like the documents (assuming they are genuine, which seems now to be a safe assumption) were stolen from the school, and that almost certainly by an insider. Last academic year I had Lauri Lebo out to Kenyon to speak to my class about her experience in Dover, PA, during the Kitzmiller trial, experience she chronicled in her excellent book The Devil in Dover. Mt. Vernon is now in worse shape than Dover, I fear. I expect that the Board of Education meeting this evening will be interesting.

127 Comments

Kim · 8 February 2010

This is going to be even more interesting. Point remains, he burned the kids.

seabiscuit · 8 February 2010

The validity of the "so-called evidence" is tainted since it was "found" and kept for 2 days prior to contacting the police and turning it over to them. Documents could have been added or taken from the "old computer bag" without anyone knowing it.

I further find it interesting that my user ID, seabiscuit, was used to make a comment on the blocked/locked topic......

seabiscuit | February 7, 2010 6:33 PM
according to a couple (also unnamed) sources, someone sent a few pics, of boxes of things taken from Freshwater’s room (in one of the school board member’s office) was sent to Freshwater in early-mid Jan.

.......and it wasn't me!

The plot thickens here in good ole' MTV!

Maya · 8 February 2010

Convenient, isn't it, that Freshwater and his friends have a reason for their fingerprints being all over the material?

phantomreader42 · 8 February 2010

In response to a comment on the old, closed thread:

Just Bob said: "He branded a child!" Yes, this guy should have been fired years ago! But I think that calling this "branding," and making it the firing offense is the wrong approach. It sounds like shrill over-reaction (sorry, Phantom).

We're talking about a guy who had other people's children entrusted to his care, and thought it would be fun to burn the symbol of his cult into their flesh. He's a religious nut, teaching lies to children in flagrant violation of the law, and the locals are so deeply indoctrinated into the same cult he's in that they actually defend him for this and threaten his victims. Maybe, just maybe, pointing out that he was burning children might shock them out of their delusion for half a second and convince them they don't want this psychopath representing the cult. Though it hasn't yet.

Just Bob said: I am NOT defending Freshwater, BUT, as I understand it, none of the marks he made were ever permanent (disappeared in a day or so), and would barely qualify as first-degree burns.

From what I've read, some lasted at least a week and were serious enough to qualify as second-degree.

Just Bob said: The kids volunteered. Yes, peer pressure is always a problem with teenagers, but they were in no way forced to cooperate.

If the kids had volunteered to drink H2SO4, would that be okay? What if they'd volunteered for a hands-on demo of the human reproductive system a-la May Kay Letourneax? What if they'd just volunteered for tattoos? An adult (especially a teacher) should know better than to encourage certain things, even if the victims volunteered. And the peer pressure in these situations is recognized as coercive.

Just Bob said: And I may be wrong about this, but I haven't heard that he had ever been told not to use the device on kids.

If he honestly couldn't tell that burning children was a bad idea without being specifically told that it was, then he has no business teaching. In fact, if he's so totally disconnected from reality as to see no problem at all with writing on the flesh of other people's kids with electrical burns, he should be in a rubber room so he doesn't endanger himself or others.

Just Bob said: Yes, it was dumb to do anything that would leave a mark that could be considered an injury, however slight, and it was way past stupid to make it a cross.

Actually, I think the choice of the cross may have been the only "smart" thing he did here, albeit probably not intentionally so. If Freshwater had used any other religious symbol, if he'd been engaging in child abuse in the name of any god other than the christian one, the local religious nuts wouldn't be raising money for his defense, or trying to intimidate his victims into silence, or doing bizarre cloak-and-dagger shit and possibly forging documents to assist his case. They would have descended on his house with torches and pitchforks, dragged him out and hung him from the nearest tree until he was dead. I'm not even sure at this point that that's an exaggeration, there've been enough death threats from religious fanatics in church-state cases, including the witness intimidation in this one, sadly a lynch mob doesn't seem all that farfetched. If he'd used a non-religious symbol, or just random marks, he would have been fired in seconds, no one would have come to his aid. It's only the fact that this crime was committed in a way that celebrates the christian cult that's kept Freshwater alive, out of jail, and still wasting money in hearings all this time. Without the support from religious nuts, he'd be out on the street, in prison, or dead. The fact that he chose a cross to burn into the flesh of children is surely a major part of what's gotten him all this support.

Just Bob said: Yes, fire him; it's clear that he has, for years, committed fire-able offenses, but "branding children" isn't one of them.

If deliberately causing burns to a child is not in itself a fire-able offense for a teacher, what the fuck is wrong with education in this country? There needs to be at least SOME minimum standard of care for children in school. A teacher should be protecting his students from harm, not actively causing harm. Yes, Freshwater should have been fired years ago for using his position to force his religious dogma on students. He should have been fired for lying to the kids, teaching them nonsense, and lying about his lesson plans and handouts. Hell, he should have been fired just for being grossly unqualified for the job! But on top of all that, he committed assault and battery (involving an actual battery!) on minors. There should be a warrant for his arrest on that!

Just Bob said: An historical aside: Back in the early '60s, in 9th grade science class, we were introduced to, presumably, the same device. It looked kind of like a fat sheep-shear, but with a blunt metal point. If I remember right, it made an ominous mad-scientist electric hum. Our teacher did several tricks with it, including having the class all hold hands in a chain and having the first student grab the metal probe (don't remember if it was on or off to start). You never felt a thing until you let go and broke the chain, then the two who broke felt a shock. He also asked if anyone wanted to feel it firsthand, and several volunteered (to earn macho points, I guess). But I know the teacher knew he'd gone too far when he got one tough dude to ground himself on the lab faucet, then zapped him on the head! Nearly knocked the guy over. Except for the head zap, I got the impression that this was pretty much a standard demo about electricity (voltage vs. amperage, etc.) in those days. I know the teacher had used the zapper for years and it was one of the exciting things kids looked forward to, maybe with some trepidation, in his class.

Many stupid things were done in the past. But the way you report it, it seems any injury to the students was strictly accidental, not the intended purpose of the exercise. And when the teacher went to far, he apparently realized it and stopped. Your teachers did something stupid and dangerous, but unlike Freshwater they didn't go in with the intention of deliberately causing lasting injury to their students. That seems like a pretty relevant difference.

ERV · 8 February 2010

It also contained three stopwatches, a whistle, and $45 in cash.
LOL, wut?

Reed A. Cartwright · 8 February 2010

ERV said: It also contained three stopwatches, a whistle, and $45 in cash. LOL, wut?

Probably material from Freshwater's classroom. A comment on the previous post said that someone anonymously sent a picture of boxes of Freshwater's classroom material sitting in an office in the school. Maybe that is the document that caused the delay, and these are materials from the classroom. No telling what is actually going on here. And I don't see how any material is going to prove that Freshwater didn't brand a child.

Karen S. · 8 February 2010

This is just plain weird, and gets weirder every day. I wonder who will get movie rights to this sordid saga? I wouldn't let that whack job train one of my dogs. Thanks for reminding me why my real estate taxes are so high.

Wheels · 8 February 2010

So someone stole some of the contents of Freshwater's room from the school. Why?

raven · 8 February 2010

Freshwater was out of town when he got a voicemail telling him about the materials, and so was not involved in retrieving them.

Bit convenient here, isn't it?

he got a voicemail telling him about the materials,

The voicemail should still exist, shouldn't it? And be traceable. Back to a disposable cell phone from Walmart, I guess.

It also contained three stopwatches, a whistle, and $45 in cash.

No one accidently throws out cash. These materials had to have been deliberately removed from the school. By someone or something. A bit strange here. Great job RBH. For your next assignment, should you choose to accept it. At midnight go to the telephone booth out by the cow barns on Wazoo lane. A call will direct you to a tape recorder in a black computer bag with a paper bag filled with old $1000 bills. Push playback. Listen. Sixty seconds after the recording is over, the tape player will self destruct. Run and don't forget that paper bag.

SpotWeld · 8 February 2010

The only thing I can thing is that a lot of the materials here are things that were unique to Freswater's classroom, but still specifically for use in his classroom (which were removed until this whole matter was settled.) Likewise the photos were to document thier placement should the "visibility of materials" become part of the issue at hand. Early on I'm sure there was some hope that this would all just "go back to the way it was".

Just because someone "on the inside" thought these materials would somehow exhonerate Freshwater, doesn't mean that they will...

So the stack of papers may be innocuous handouts that were held becuase they had to be checked to see if they were any of the ones reported as being part of Freshwater's non-acceptable course practices, but kept when they were shown not to be (and yet still had value as classroom materials)?

It's just all so freaking odd.

J-Dog · 8 February 2010

I agree 100% with raven (= 110% for those sports fans that are having football withdrawal).

The first thing that occured to me? How convenient that Freshwater happened to be out of town. I am surprised that the papers were not reported to be found with fish scales all over them.

RBH · 8 February 2010

seabiscuit said: The validity of the "so-called evidence" is tainted since it was "found" and kept for 2 days prior to contacting the police and turning it over to them. Documents could have been added or taken from the "old computer bag" without anyone knowing it. I further find it interesting that my user ID, seabiscuit, was used to make a comment on the blocked/locked topic...... seabiscuit | February 7, 2010 6:33 PM according to a couple (also unnamed) sources, someone sent a few pics, of boxes of things taken from Freshwater’s room (in one of the school board member’s office) was sent to Freshwater in early-mid Jan. .......and it wasn't me! The plot thickens here in good ole' MTV!

I wondered about that one, since its literacy level was well below yours. The IP address associated with that comment resolves to Embarq, so it could well be local to Mt. Vernon since Embarq is the provider of DSL lines in this area.

A Rice · 8 February 2010

It would appear that the contents of the bag are stolen. The lawyer telling them to call the police was probability the smartest thing he has done. Receiving stolen property is a criminal offense. I can't imagine what it could contain that will get him off the gallows.

My guess is that someone on the inside thinks this will help him, when in fact it will only "dirty" his case more (if that is possible).

Just Bob · 8 February 2010

phantomreader42 said: In response to a comment on the old, closed thread:

In response to your response... We agree about 95%. But I still think some folks go too far with the "branding" bit. I still haven't heard that any administrator ever told him or any other teacher not to use it on kids like that. How about teachers in other districts? Has anyone out there ever used the device like that? Or known someone who has? Or known someone who was told not to? I certainly wouldn't use the coil like that, and it's clear that you wouldn't--but I still think the "burning" and "branding" language is inappropriately extreme. I mean, think of how many things that kids are given the opportunity to do, asked to do, or even ordered to do at school are likely to leave a red mark (or worse) that lasts a day or two. Just think of any sport or even PE class. I know I came home from school with red marks and occasional bruises, floor burns, etc. from touch football, basketball, softball, wrestling, dodgeball... which we were ordered to participate in. Hell, here in Texas it takes a kid getting KILLED in football (happens about once a year), for a coach to even be questioned about his treatment of players. I've even seen kids with more or less permanent bruises on their shoulders from carrying backpacks full of heavy textbooks. As a retired teacher, perhaps I'm oversensitive about "You injured my child!" charges. I guess the question is where you draw the line with things that could be considered injury to kids. You and I agree that it should be drawn to exclude making marks on skin with a Tesla coil device. But I wouldn't rate that so far below the line that I'd call it "burning or branding children." We'll have to disagree on that, and I won't argue with you anymore about it. BTW, are you familiar with the device in question? Would you approve of letting kids experience the "zap" in any way? How about the "holding hands" demo I described? No burns, no marks, but a shock about like a good carpet-doorknob zap. Again, don't assume I'm defending Freshwater. He's a jerk and an asshole. But a jerk who rudely jostles someone, who then slips and breaks his neck, is NOT guilty of first degree murder. He's just a rude jerk.

Paul Burnett · 8 February 2010

raven said:
he got a voicemail telling him about the materials,
The voicemail should still exist, shouldn't it? And be traceable.

Anybody want to bet the voicemail (if it ever existed) got "accidently" erased, and no longer exists? I want to see Freshwater on the stand and under oath describe the voicemail, and deny it was a live phone call. And what little "souvenirs" do you think the Three Stooges kept behind and DIDN'T give to the police? If they kept so much as one piece of paper or one picture, that's "witholding evidence" and there's another charge for them.

RBH · 8 February 2010

Hm. And I see the real seabiscuit's IP does not resolve to Embarq. So it was a sock/imposter. We'll look into it more deeply.

Larry Boy · 8 February 2010

Just Bob: You certainly aren't alone in your sentiment that sensationalist language is inappropriate and gentlemanly in regards to the freshwater case. Thanks for being a well tempered voice of reason.

I think freshwater has proven that he can't separate his faith from his public duties, and therefore I can't see why he should expect to continue teach in a public school. But, on the other hand, I don't know that anything he did was so egregious that he couldn't teach at a parochial school.

Reed A. Cartwright · 8 February 2010

RBH said: Hm. And I see the real seabiscuit's IP does not resolve to Embarq. So it was a sock/imposter. We'll look into it more deeply.

The emails are different, so I suspect that it is a coincidence that two people are using the same moniker. It's not like "Seabiscuit" is unique.

seabiscuit · 8 February 2010

It's a little freaky that comment was made like it was me. The longer this goes on, the weirder it gets. The only thing that's missing is sex and murder....lol!

seabiscuit · 8 February 2010

Reed A. Cartwright said:
RBH said: Hm. And I see the real seabiscuit's IP does not resolve to Embarq. So it was a sock/imposter. We'll look into it more deeply.
The emails are different, so I suspect that it is a coincidence that two people are using the same moniker. It's not like "Seabiscuit" is unique.

Yes, but usually you can't use the same moniker as someone else when you are signing up for a blog site.

raven · 8 February 2010

It’s not like “Seabiscuit” is unique.

It is not like it is a common internet name either. I've never seen another seabiscuit on the internet. There are a near infinite number of nyms to make up or pick from. What is the probability that two people on PT just happened to pick the same name? The most parsimonious explanation is aliasing.

Daffyd ap Morgen · 8 February 2010

And this is supposed to get Freshwater restored as a teacher? He was fired for doing crazy stuff--and now this even crazier behavior is going to vindicate him? I really pity the poor person chairing these hearings!

Reed A. Cartwright · 8 February 2010

seabiscuit said: Yes, but usually you can't use the same moniker as someone else when you are signing up for a blog site.

We don't have a signup system, so it easy for someone to accidentally use an already established name. Usually the community works it out.

raven said: What is the probability that two people on PT just happened to pick the same name? The most parsimonious explanation is aliasing.

It's the birthday problem in statistics. Basically, the probability is much higher than you think because you have to consider all possible pairs, not just the two individuals that caused the collision. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthday_problem

DistendedPendulusFrenulum · 8 February 2010

I think Freshwater got mixed up with a bad crowd. I am guessing he has that religionist's naivete, and let those other henchmen railroad him into really, really screwing the pooch.

Nomad · 8 February 2010

Regarding the discussion about the usage of the term "branding children".. would those of you who object feel more comfortable with "cooked children on the inside with radio frequency electricity"? I admit that the term branding suggests something other than what happened, my first image was of some sort of cross shaped device that burned the image into the skin. I agree, that's not accurate, but I'm not sure the alternatives sound any better for Freshwater's case.

This was not a simple van de graff generator. The output of tesla coils is sometimes treated as as harmless as the static zaps you get from a van de graff machine, but it's potentially more dangerous. In this case it appears that the damage was done to the surface of the student's skin, but I know of situations when someone has played with a tesla coil and ended up getting damage to his muscles because the current went through them instead of the surface of his skin, where RF electricity is usually assumed to go.

As to the current shenanigans in Mt Vernon.. I have a guess as to what's going on. It's vague but it's based on "climate gate". In that situation a bunch of stolen emails were leaped upon as evidence of fraudulent activity without any actual evidence of such activity being uncovered. It was sufficient to leap upon a few phrases that can be interpreted multiple ways. The denialists declared that they'd found the evidence and went straight to trumpeting their triumph rather than actually attempting to use the evidence for some purpose. It was a political trick, not a finding of evidence.

So my guess is that this is intended more to play out in the arena of public opinion than in the hearings. They have the concept of an insider covertly handing over to them secret documents that the school board didn't want them to have. They can go to the public with this story and... well, I'm not sure what happens from there. Perhaps ultimately they could use this to try to get a new creationist school board elected, or just to generally try to build sufficient public pressure to get Freshwater reinstated.

I'm sure the pastor is already telling fascinating stories to his flock about his adventures traveling at night under the protection of an armed guard to retrieve secret evidence to exonerate the good and just Mr Freshwater. It feeds the persecution complex in multiple ways.

As to what will actually happen with this in reality I'm not entirely sure. Now that the police are involved I'm curious to see what they'll do regarding the apparent theft of money from school property.

I don't know about the Mt Vernon district, but around where I live I once did a little temporary work for the district on their computers. But even for that brief time I had to be fingerprinted, and apparently my prints were sent to the FBI for checking and, as far as I could tell, long term storage.

If that's the case in Mt Vernon then things could move along rather swiftly. If the other party wasn't sufficiently covert and handled the plastic bag with his or her bare hands then the police may have at least a place to start in the investigation already.

One last thing, I have to comment on someone apparently using Raven's name to post rumors related to the trash story. That's just bizarre! It just makes it all the more fascinating, it suggests that another local is aware that we're following this and somehow wants to involve us.

I can't really parse any apparent intent from that message though, it doesn't necessarily seem pro or anti Freshwater, so I don't really know what to make of it.

Just Bob · 8 February 2010

Larry Boy said: Just Bob: You certainly aren't alone in your sentiment that sensationalist language is inappropriate and gentlemanly in regards to the freshwater case. Thanks for being a well tempered voice of reason.

UNgentlemanly, I think you mean. Thanks, Larry. It strikes me that some of the more extreme language is reminiscent of what creationists do when they call "evolutionism" racist, Nazi, or accuse all "evilutionists" of wanting to promote a radical, atheistic, antiXian agenda.

Nomad · 8 February 2010

Woops, crud, not Raven's name, Seabiscuit's. Sorry. And yeah, I did wonder if it might be a coincidence. But.. maybe I'm just stuck in conspiracy mode after all this talk of shady late night meetings with evidence stashed in a trash can.

Reed A. Cartwright · 8 February 2010

Nomad said: Regarding the discussion about the usage of the term "branding children".. would those of you who object feel more comfortable with "cooked children on the inside with radio frequency electricity"? I admit that the term branding suggests something other than what happened, my first image was of some sort of cross shaped device that burned the image into the skin. I agree, that's not accurate, but I'm not sure the alternatives sound any better for Freshwater's case.

One of the earliest stories on PT called it a "cross burning".

Chris Caprette · 8 February 2010

OK, I know it's silly but as soon as I read about the stopwatches and whistle the statement "Coach Daubenmire is deep throat!" shot through my head.

RBH - It's been said before but wow you are really doing the journalist's hard work here! Thanks for getting the story out!

Ryan Cunningham · 8 February 2010

Very interesting. The photographs mean at least some of the contents of the bag are probably legitimate. Hard to fake that many photos convincingly.

Hypotheses: a) some crank (in this saga, I'm afraid we have a rather long list of suspects that fit that description) stole a bag full of goods from the school b) a paranoid nut threw a bunch of stuff in a bag to get attention c) this is just a stall tactic and the story is all or partially a fiction.

These hypotheses are by no means mutually exclusive, of course. Can anyone think of any other possibilities?

Gingerbaker · 8 February 2010

"it also contained three stopwatches, a whistle, and $45 in cash."

It may be just a coincidence, but according to a Michael Crichton novel, those are the exact items needed to generate a quantum foam temporal displacement infidibulum.

Ichthyic · 8 February 2010

Can anyone think of any other possibilities?

how about Freshwater wanted his stuff back, so engineered an OJ-style break-in to get it?

He maybe figured he would be more likely to get it back eventually from the police than the school, or else didn't even bother to consider it would be turned into the police to begin with?

isn't there some line about never assuming conspiracy when stupidity will suffice?

yes, I believe Freshwater to be stupid enough to try and pull something just like that.

Pinko Punko · 8 February 2010

Everything about the Freshwater case has been delay delay delay, so what would a last hour introduction of all of Freshwater's previously claimed material that was "missing" do for the case, besides delay it?

Jimbo · 9 February 2010

Is some one writing the musical?

user@example.com · 9 February 2010

Ryan Cunningham said: These hypotheses are by no means mutually exclusive, of course. Can anyone think of any other possibilities?

Anonymous has decided to troll Freshwater? Not all that likely, unfortunately.

eric · 9 February 2010

SpotWeld said: The only thing I can thing is that a lot of the materials here are things that were unique to Freswater's classroom, but still specifically for use in his classroom (which were removed until this whole matter was settled.)

Didn't Freshwater use a whistle to originally signal the kids as to when to shout "here" when presented with evolutionary material? Or am I just remembering wrong? I agree with most of the posters here. It really sounds like there's some crank at the school who thinks he's helping Freshwater by cleaning out his classroom for him, but is in fact probably just making everything worse for both sides. Re: Freshwater's being out of town. I don't read anything sinister into that. He was probably better off without the police cataloging everything in that bag. However, I think the Judge/arbitrator could legitimately ask why he should keep granting delays to the defense if they have time to go on vacation. Every delay costs the people of Mt. Vernon money. If Freshwater and his attorney(s) aren't using the time to work on the case, then its in the people's interest to stop granting delays.

Marion Delgado · 9 February 2010

Richard:

Periodically I mail or message Lauri Lebo summaries of the stuff going on in the Freshwater case. It's wonderful you actually had her out to your classes, and it almost shows foresight. It's a secular miracle!

In terms of legal applicability it's no Kitzmiller v. Dover. In terms of reappliable tactic for pushing creationism, however, it's probably more effective than the board's behavior in the Kitzmiller case, and I would say by now, in terms of monetary damage to the school system it's worse.

To do it, you just need a town with a mostly pro-creation culture, and a few martyrs or dupes like Freshwater.

Marion Delgado · 9 February 2010

I have to agree with what I got out of ERV's post.

Wherever the two stopwatches, whistle, and $45 came from, including them in the evidence drop is demented and bizarre.

The whole thing gets more "amateur hour by crazy people" every day.

truthspeaker · 9 February 2010

I still haven’t heard that any administrator ever told him or any other teacher not to use it on kids like that.

Why would he need to be told? It's obvious. And a burn is a burn. If the skin turns red in reaction to the application of heat, that's a burn by defintion, not hyperbole.

dingo · 9 February 2010

Why has no one raised the issue of evidence tampering?

The Curmudgeon · 9 February 2010

Unless this stuff is exonerating evidence which will somehow contradict the allegations of Freshwater's misconduct (and it certainly doesn't seem to be), this whole exercise is meaningless.

e-dogg · 9 February 2010

Pinko Punko said: Everything about the Freshwater case has been delay delay delay

I get the same impression. It seems to me that the defense might have resigned itself to a loss and is just vindictively trying to bleed money and time out of the school system.

holycow · 9 February 2010

I believe a Tesla Coil applied to a Child with a pace maker would have a horrible out come.

mountvernon1805 · 9 February 2010

John Freshwater spoke at last night’s school board meeting. I’ve posted a video of his comments on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HreGdsz0cTg

Stan Polanski · 9 February 2010

A question for RBH -

Will the lawyers for the school board be able to see the (apparently) stolen documents? Does the referee in the administrative hearing have subpoena power?

raven · 9 February 2010

Why has no one raised the issue of evidence tampering?

The possibility has been raised in somewhat obscure language. After all, how long is it going to be before Panda's Thumb is subpoenaed along with everyone posting on these threads? Just making a joke here but this case is getting so bizarre anything can happen. Judge Jones in Kitzmiller versus Dover got death threats from the god bothering good xians after his ruling and ended up spending Xmas with federal Marshalls as bodyguards. I bet he didn't expect that, death threats are felonies and in general a poor response to law enforcement activities. Given the information we have, what this incident looks like is a clear case of theft. The stuff was at the school and ended up on a street corner. Someone unknown had to have done that.

a “large number of photographs of items from John’s room.”

If these photographs were taken by the school for possible use in the numerous hearings and court cases, stealing them could possibly be construed as obstruction of justice a felony. These appear to be school property that no one else has any conceivable right to have. There used to be one of the Ten commandments against stealing stuff but I guess that one got thrown out along with the ones about lying, killing, worshipping idols, and using god's name in vain. Down to the Five commandments now.

JT · 9 February 2010

This is boneheaded on so many levels. Even in the (unlikely) event that there was anything in there that could have exonerated Freshwater, it can't anymore. Everything that was supposedly in that bag is now suspect.

Gingerbaker · 9 February 2010

"John Freshwater spoke at last night's school board meeting. I've posted a video of his comments on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HreGdsz0cTg"

Well, that was interesting. Freshwater seems to be making a valid point here about possible false statements from school officials about materials taken from Freshwater's classroom.

stevaroni · 9 February 2010

dingo said: Why has no one raised the issue of evidence tampering?

I dunno? Is this stuff actually evidence of anything?

utidjian · 9 February 2010

Interesting video. Thanks for posting the link MT1805.

Short synopsis (the sound was pretty bad and Freshwater seems to have a little bit of public speaking difficulty when reading from a script (strange for a teacher)) In no particular order:

1. A bunch of stuff was taken by school authorities from Freshwater's classroom after he was "locked out" of his classroom some time back in 2008.

2. Some of this stuff was stored in an unsecured area.

3. Freshwater's attorney had asked the school to see this stuff.

4. Freshwater's attorney was told by the school there was no stuff to be seen.

5. A person who works for the school district and is friendly towards Freshwater (the informant?) says such stuff exists.

6. Freshwater claims that this stuff will exonerate him.

7. The "informant" informs Freshwater where this stuff can be picked up.

8. Freshwater's people pick the stuff up.

9. Freshwater and his attorney go through the stuff and turn (all?) of it over to the police.

Seems to me that Freshwater is trying to do, at least, two things here:

a. Claim that the school district was withholding evidence.

b. Introduce evidence in his favor that has questionable provenance.

Isn't this some sort of bizzare OJ style of defense strategy?

-DU-

The Curmudgeon · 9 February 2010

How will this "evidence" exonerate him? Will it show that he didn't teach creationism? That he didn't burn the kids with a Tesla coil? That he didn't keep a bible on his desk or the Ten Commandments on the wall? All of those issues are already established by evidence. This mystery sack of goodies can't undo anything.

DS · 9 February 2010

stevaroni wrote:

"I dunno? Is this stuff actually evidence of anything?"

Sure. The evidence includes the bible that wasn't on his desk, the creationist sources he didn't use, the creationist video he didn't show and the burn mark he didn't make on the student's arm. There, he must be innocent if all that stuff was concealed by the school board. It's a conspiracy I tells ya.

utidjian · 9 February 2010

raven said:
a “large number of photographs of items from John’s room.”
If these photographs were taken by the school for possible use in the numerous hearings and court cases, stealing them could possibly be construed as obstruction of justice a felony. These appear to be school property that no one else has any conceivable right to have.

IANAL: If part of this stuff was photographs of Freshwater's classroom I am not so sure that, even if they belong to the school district, Freshwater's doesn't have a right to review copies of them. From the video it appears that Freshwater claims that his attorney requested to see these photographs and his request was refused. I am unclear on what grounds the request was refused. In any case... In my opinion, if I was working for the Mount Vernon school district and knew that evidence existed that the district was trying to hide then, I would probably inform the court that such evidence exists. I certainly would not have gone about it in the way Freshwater's informant has. I am in no way sympathetic towards Freshwater's plight. I do have an opinion on how I think the justice system is supposed to work. Genuine or fabricated; I think that Freshwater is trying to sway opinion by discrediting the school district. It will be interesting to see how this case turns out. This is better than most courtroom dramas in the movies. Did someone mention a movie in the works? -DU-

Kim · 9 February 2010

The IP address associated with that comment resolves to Embarq, so it could well be local to Mt. Vernon since Embarq is the provider of DSL lines in this area.

IP can often be traced within a provider, sheck it here: http://www.ip2location.com/demo.aspx

RBH · 9 February 2010

The last paragraph of Freshwater's statement to the Board, which he did not have time to make, is very interesting:

Resolution My attorney has indicated with the new anonymous materials being delivered there is no way of knowing when this case might end because he has to examine the materials and bring in more witnesses. I estimate Mr. Short [Superintendent] has over 1,000 items from my classroom that my attorney will review. I am willing to explore a resolution before I learn the identity of the anonymous sender if the board so chooses. You can reach me by calling my house.

So it's a pressure play: 'Settle now or this will go on forever.' If the Board knuckles under to pressure like that it will have made a laughingstock of itself.

raven · 9 February 2010

2. Some of this stuff was stored in an unsecured area.

Well, that turned out to be not exactly a great idea.

7. The “informant” informs Freshwater where this stuff can be picked up. 8. Freshwater’s people pick the stuff up.

I seem to remember from somewhere that taking things that aren't yours is theft.

6. Freshwater claims that this stuff will exonerate him.

Doubtful. There is a large amount of evidence already presented that wasn't found on a street corner.

raven · 9 February 2010

IANAL: If part of this stuff was photographs of Freshwater’s classroom I am not so sure that, even if they belong to the school district, Freshwater’s doesn’t have a right to review copies of them.

We are all amateur not-lawyers here. Freshwater may well have a right to review them. But not any time he wants to. That is what Discovery in court is all about. All the evidence is put on the table during Discovery. Both sides get to see what the other side has. Everyone's cards are put face up before the actual trial starts. Look up "Discovery" in courtroom procedure. This might be a case of evidence tampering. If anyone knows more than what I posted above or if it looks like I got it wrong, feel free to correct it.

From the video it appears that Freshwater claims that his attorney requested to see these photographs and his request was refused. I am unclear on what grounds the request was refused.

Right now, there is no court case ongoing. The civil cases have been filed and that is it. There is the hearing which is not a court case, it is a hearing. The proper avenue would be for the presiding hearing officer to adjudicate what gets admitted to the hearing proceedings. In a court case it would be the rules of evidence, the judge, and whatever a subpoena can procure. IANAL either but the obvious course of action would have been for Freshwater and his lawyer to either subpoena the documents or petition the hearing presider to order the school district to let them see the documents. There are proper legal channels to be followed for these sorts of issues.

A Rice · 9 February 2010

Since the School District has not claimed that this stuff was ever in their custody, I wonder if Freshwater (or friends) may have had this all along. Now they want to use something they had not previously disclosed.

Lars from FL · 9 February 2010

I have had great luck with the tools from http://en.utrace.de/ .

Kim said:
The IP address associated with that comment resolves to Embarq, so it could well be local to Mt. Vernon since Embarq is the provider of DSL lines in this area.
IP can often be traced within a provider, sheck it here: http://www.ip2location.com/demo.aspx

utidjian · 9 February 2010

raven said: We are all amateur not-lawyers here. Freshwater may well have a right to review them. But not any time he wants to. That is what Discovery in court is all about. All the evidence is put on the table during Discovery. Both sides get to see what the other side has. Everyone's cards are put face up before the actual trial starts. Look up "Discovery" in courtroom procedure. This might be a case of evidence tampering. If anyone knows more than what I posted above or if it looks like I got it wrong, feel free to correct it.

I am aware of the process of discovery (from the layman's point of view anyhow.)

Right now, there is no court case ongoing. The civil cases have been filed and that is it. There is the hearing which is not a court case, it is a hearing. The proper avenue would be for the presiding hearing officer to adjudicate what gets admitted to the hearing proceedings. In a court case it would be the rules of evidence, the judge, and whatever a subpoena can procure. IANAL either but the obvious course of action would have been for Freshwater and his lawyer to either subpoena the documents or petition the hearing presider to order the school district to let them see the documents. There are proper legal channels to be followed for these sorts of issues.

According to Freshwater (at about the 2:00 minute mark in the video) his attorney did subpoena the board and a Mr Short for these materials. He claims this was done on January 14 2010. He also claims that Mr Short had "enough material from my classroom to fill the back of a truck." (or something like that.) I think I can see why the $45 was highlighted by Freshwater now. My guess is that they will claim that this "evidence" was not molested even though it was in an unsecured area because, if it was, the $45 would have been taken by the molester (or some such.) Anyhow, as hard as it is to tear myself away from this soap opera I have to get to work. -DU-

holycow · 9 February 2010

Here are quotes in the Mt Vernon news by the schools attorney regarding this:
"Tuesday morning, board attorney David Millstone said he was not at Monday’s school board meeting, but he did talk about materials from Freshwater’s classroom.

Millstone contradicted Freshwater’s claim that the board and Superintendent Short have been keeping material “hidden” and inaccessible to Freshwater and his attorney. Although there is no legal requirement — with regard to termination hearings individuals may be subpoenaed to testify, but there is no “discovery” phase with regard to materials — he said that whatever materials the board and Short had from the classroom have been made available to Freshwater, and Freshwater and his attorney have gone through that material.

“When Mr. Freshwater left school,” Millstone said, “he left his classroom. He left his Bible and a lot of other things. During the summer he went back into his classroom, we know at least once. We do not know if he took anything from the room or if he did not take anything from the room. In August when the other teacher needed the classroom, the board had the material boxed up and sent to Central Office. [Personal items, such as the Bible, were returned to Freshwater.] It was first locked up in an unused office, then moved to a locked storage room. Anything else that may appear has not been in the board’s possession.”

Previously, Freshwater stated he had taken things from the classroom to Trinity Assembly to copy, then returned them to the classroom.

“Strangely, materials that are apparently missing are things he [Freshwater] took to the church,” Millstone said. “We [the school board and Millstone] have never seen them."

mountvernonnews.com

eric · 9 February 2010

raven said: IANAL either but the obvious course of action would have been for Freshwater and his lawyer to either subpoena the documents or petition the hearing presider to order the school district to let them see the documents. There are proper legal channels to be followed for these sorts of issues.

True, but even after the 'vigilante' stole this material they did the wrong thing. The proper action (IANAL...) at that point would've been to call the Board's attorney & the police immediately, and all go collect it together that day. And Freshwater's lawyer should know that.

RBH said: So it’s a pressure play: ‘Settle now or this will go on forever.’ If the Board knuckles under to pressure like that it will have made a laughingstock of itself.

I think the arbitrator/judge/whatever will also make himself a laughingstock of the legal community if he admits this evidence. Two days in one sides' hands with no attempt to contact the other side or the police? No independent inventory? No way of telling if the photos were 'live' or staged? You can't let that crap in.

holycow · 9 February 2010

Also if you go to the NCSE site you can read legal documents related to the Federal cases.

http://ncse.com

under legal cases see Doe vs Mt Vernon

this was filed:
12/30/09: Plaintiff's motion to compel production of documents and further deposition of John Freshwater

it states "hereby move the Court for an
order compelling Defendant John Freshwater (hereinafter “Freshwater”) to produce documents
he is withholding from the Dennises and to make himself available to be further deposed
regarding these documents."

It looks like he is doing the same thing he is accusing the school of!!

Ravilyn Sanders · 9 February 2010

Paul Burnett said: Anybody want to bet the voicemail (if it ever existed) got "accidently" erased, and no longer exists? I want to see Freshwater on the stand and under oath describe the voicemail, and deny it was a live phone call.

The Perry Mason wannbes might have deleted the voicemail from their account. But it is likely the service provider has logs and would be able to confirm if there was indeed a voicemail in the box. They might even be able to pull the actual voicemail and other identification like caller-id etc. I don't know how long the service provider might keep these data nor do I know what it would take to make them preserve whatever evidence they have. If it could be shown there was no voice mail ...

stevaroni · 9 February 2010

utidjian said: (Freshwater claims) 1. A bunch of stuff was taken by school authorities from Freshwater's classroom after he was "locked out" of his classroom some time back in 2008. 2. Some of this stuff was stored in an unsecured area. 3. Freshwater's attorney had asked the school to see this stuff. 4. Freshwater's attorney was told by the school there was no stuff to be seen.

Or, as a non-conspiracy theorist might describe it... When Freshwater didn't return to his classroom this year, the new teacher cleaned up the room, unceremoniously bundled up all Freshwater's old "supplemental materials", posters, and other random junk that builds up in a long-term workplace (three whistles, anybody?), and, because they didn't know if he should keep it or not, dumped it in a cardboard box which he gave to the principal and said "this is from Freshwater's room, you throw it out". The box then sat in the corner of the principal's office, beneath a a box of files for the school lunch program and three busted football helmets that had to go back to Rydell to get fixed for the upcoming season. Every once in a while, the principal would come across another piece of useless junk associated with Freshwater, like a packet of pictures he had someone take of the empty classroom "just in case" and now he though he maybe shouldn't throw out, and he'd toss it into the "Freshwater junk" box. Till one day the principal got tired of tripping over the box and told the janitor to move this crap somewhere else and the janitor unceremoniously stashed the box on a shelf in the room where they store old books that talk about how computers will someday fit into a single room and man will walk on the moon, because that's what schools do, they never throw stuff out, since that would require making a decision that might someday be called wrong. And the people with real lives to lead and dozens of distracted adolescents to try to teach every day promptly forgot that said box of crap existed, because it was, in fact, a box of crap. And for those people who don't think that the X-Files is a documentary, that's probably pretty much the whole story. Of course, Freshwater et. al. buy their aluminum foil pre-made in the shape of hats, because it saves so much time, so a "mystery box full of evidence is like catnip to them. So now we're talking about Deep Throat and Dog the Bounty Hunter running around armed in the Ohio cornfields at night. Now that's comforting. Sigh. And we wonder why serious people don't want to go into teaching.

David Utidjian · 9 February 2010

Stevaroni,

That is probably the most likely scenario for this whole affair (and pretty damn funny.) Thanks for writing it up.

Reminds me of the old addage: If the facts are on your side, argue the facts. If you don't have any facts, just make some up.
(Or something like that)

If I were Freshwater I would fire my attorney.

-DU-

RBH · 9 February 2010

holycow said: [SNIP] Here are quotes in the Mt Vernon news by the schools attorney regarding this:

URL of the MVNews story.

Kevin B · 9 February 2010

holycow said: Also if you go to the NCSE site you can read legal documents related to the Federal cases. http://ncse.com under legal cases see Doe vs Mt Vernon this was filed: 12/30/09: Plaintiff's motion to compel production of documents and further deposition of John Freshwater it states "hereby move the Court for an order compelling Defendant John Freshwater (hereinafter “Freshwater”) to produce documents he is withholding from the Dennises and to make himself available to be further deposed regarding these documents." It looks like he is doing the same thing he is accusing the school of!!

It would be really interesting if any of these withheld documents are in the black bag. With the two day break in the "chain of custody" it will be impossible to know whether the school had them, or whether they were added later. How events do conspire. :)

JohnK · 9 February 2010

It’s open terrain, with ...a farm field (now snow covered, but with corn or soybeans in season)

Not pumpkins? When WorldNutDaily has it's way after The Righteous Exoneration, no doubt a future National Historic Landmark.

seabiscuit · 9 February 2010

How interesting that the letter that was attached to the "black bag" was not included in the statement made to the police in the report. Yet, copies were made and given to the News.

This fiasco is embarrassing to our town....Mayberry RFD marries PT Barnum & Bailey Circus and has a baby, Mt. Vernon, Ohio......ughhhhhhhh!

Now our newspaper writes up a huge story on the "black bag" finding so it's now part of the National Enquirer.

Someone uses my name, seabiscuit, to post about a previous anonymous event in January that I didn't know about but because I'm from MTV, they use my name to give it credibility???????

Anyone who believes any of this is real and that we haven't entered the Twilight Zone needs to wake up before they fall off the cliff!

eric · 9 February 2010

David Utidjian said: Reminds me of the old addage [sic]: If the facts are on your side, argue the facts. If you don't have any facts, just make some up. (Or something like that)

I googled it out of curiousity, here's what I found (source): "If the facts are on your side, bang on the facts. If the law is on your side, bang on the law. If neither the facts nor the law is on your side, bang on the table." They appear to be banging on the table.

truthspeaker · 9 February 2010

Ravilyn Sanders replied to comment from Paul Burnett | February 9, 2010 1:28 PM | Reply | Edit Paul Burnett said: Anybody want to bet the voicemail (if it ever existed) got “accidently” erased, and no longer exists? I want to see Freshwater on the stand and under oath describe the voicemail, and deny it was a live phone call. The Perry Mason wannbes might have deleted the voicemail from their account. But it is likely the service provider has logs and would be able to confirm if there was indeed a voicemail in the box. They might even be able to pull the actual voicemail and other identification like caller-id etc. I don’t know how long the service provider might keep these data nor do I know what it would take to make them preserve whatever evidence they have.

Legally, you'd need a subpeona. In practice, just get a law enforcement officer to say it's part of a terrorism investigation and the phone company will hand over the records and a recording of the voice mail, no questions asked.

Doc Bill · 9 February 2010

Two observations.

First, it seems strange to me that of all things Freshwater left his precious Bible in the classroom. Is this the same one he carried everywhere for inspiration, or did he have lesser Bibles that he could leave around?

Second, the school board cut off Freshwater mid-speech. Seemed like they have had enough and told him to STFU and GTFO. Freshwater didn't appear to LOL at that but I was, like, ROTFLMAO. I am heartless.

holycow · 9 February 2010

There is a three minute limit on a speech during the public participation potion of the BOE meeting.

nmgirl · 9 February 2010

eric said:
David Utidjian said: Reminds me of the old addage [sic]: If the facts are on your side, argue the facts. If you don't have any facts, just make some up. (Or something like that)
I googled it out of curiousity, here's what I found (source): "If the facts are on your side, bang on the facts. If the law is on your side, bang on the law. If neither the facts nor the law is on your side, bang on the table." They appear to be banging on the table.

or: if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.

stevaroni · 9 February 2010

Doc Bill said: ..It seems strange to me that of all things Freshwater left his precious Bible in the classroom. Is this the same one he carried everywhere for inspiration, or did he have lesser Bibles that he could leave around?

That was probably his spare "Leave it out so it can be seen Bible", as opposed to his "Carry it everywhere with me so I can refer to it at a moment's notice Bible". By the way, am I the only one that thinks it's weird that True Believers^tm, especially Christians, you know, followers of Jesus, have to carry a Bible at all times as if they apparently can't memorize Jesus' single basic message, which , as I remember was both emphatic and short, being something along the lines of "Love one another and treat your fellow human beings like... well, human beings." Jews don't feel the need to lug the Torah everywhere and they have a much more complicated book to memorize, what with all that fighting and smiting and begetting and whatnot. And all the kosher baking recipes. Am I wrong here? Is that not basically whole basic New Testament in one line? I'm pretty sure Jesus would grade that interpretation as a "pass". Why do people like Freshwater feel the need to carry a 700 page book to remember that? Especially if they're not actually going to bother doing it?

RBH · 9 February 2010

stevaroni said: That was probably his spare "Leave it out so it can be seen Bible", as opposed to his "Carry it everywhere with me so I can refer to it at a moment's notice Bible".

In fact Freshwater has testified that he has multiple Bibles, one in his truck and several at home, in addition to the one on his school desk, which he refers to as his "inspiration." There's a strong odor of bibliolatry in all of this.

stevaroni · 9 February 2010

RBH said: ... There's a strong odor of bibliolatry in all of this.

Oh, there's a strong odor of something...

Mark Boyles · 9 February 2010

The case has been noticed by The Guardian this morning February 10th (upmarket English newspaper).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/feb/10/brand-cross-christian-science-teacher

veritas36 · 9 February 2010

"Freshwater identified all but about 300 photographs as having come from his room"

How many photographs were there, if 300 were not of Freshwater's room? What were the 300 of? How would, say 1000 photographs, fit in a black computer bag?

What did the 3-4" of papers say? How did they fit in the bag?

I'm not quite seeing the picture.

Ryan Cunningham · 9 February 2010

stevaroni said: Am I wrong here? Is that not basically whole basic New Testament in one line?

Well, one of the many contradictory versions of Jesus we have did say "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." So you'd be right. But another version gave two rules "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." So you'd be half right. But to an Evangelical (and yet a third version of Jesus... and Paul) you've got the wrong rule. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Believe or DIE! How do you manage to live with all these contradictions? Instead of spending your time reading and contemplating the divine book, you wave it in front of everyone all day and PRETEND like what it says is actually important to you. It's a shortcut to seeming wise and spiritual.

Ryan Cunningham · 9 February 2010

Ryan Cunningham said: Hypotheses: a) some crank (in this saga, I'm afraid we have a rather long list of suspects that fit that description) stole a bag full of goods from the school b) a paranoid nut threw a bunch of stuff in a bag to get attention c) this is just a stall tactic and the story is all or partially a fiction.

Based on the video and Millstone's comment, it looks like: d) all of the above. To stall the hearing, a nut stole a bunch of stuff from the school and threw it in a bag to get attention and a paranoid crank mixed in some spy fiction when he told the story to the press.

RBH · 9 February 2010

veritas36 said: "Freshwater identified all but about 300 photographs as having come from his room" How many photographs were there, if 300 were not of Freshwater's room? What were the 300 of? How would, say 1000 photographs, fit in a black computer bag? What did the 3-4" of papers say? How did they fit in the bag? I'm not quite seeing the picture.

My interpretation is that the photographs were of items in his room; the photos themselves were not items from the room. And we have no information (yet) about the documents/papers.

Pinko Punko · 9 February 2010

Sounds like they are trying to "launder" evidence. Freshwater has appeared to have lied on the witness stand, or have at the least been incredibly non-responsive to simple questions. I also think that his lawyer has completely lost any shred of credibility.

Just Bob · 9 February 2010

stevaroni said: Am I wrong here? Is that not basically whole basic New Testament in one line? I'm pretty sure Jesus would grade that interpretation as a "pass". Why do people like Freshwater feel the need to carry a 700 page book to remember that? Especially if they're not actually going to bother doing it?

You're pretty much right. But my irony tank starts to overflow whenever I encounter Bible-carrying type folks who are completely unaware of commandments by their Lord and Savior in the NEW Testament (so intended for His followers). Things like "Swear no oaths at all," and "Don't pray in public." Not only do they selectively disregard inconvenient parts of the OT (but bacon is so GOOD)--they do the same with the NT.

Marion Delgado · 10 February 2010

mountvernon1805 said: John Freshwater spoke at last night’s school board meeting. I’ve posted a video of his comments on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HreGdsz0cTg

A quick transcript (the blonde woman on the board spoke too quietly to transcribe precisely) Board Woman:

Mr Freshwater? Speak, and you'll have 3 minutes this afternoon.

John Freshwater:

Good evening. Currently, I am and have been undergoing a hearing based upon a resolution by this board to consider termination of my teaching contract. I thought the hearing was about to end sometime last month but the proceeding changed again because somebody sent an anonymous letter containing some photographs of some items from my classroom, Last week another anonymous delivery was made that contained approximately 300 photographs of items that were in my room. Additionally, the anonymous delivery sent a black bag that contained many of my personal items including about $40. The black bag sent to me anonymously was the same bag I used in 2003 to keep all my materials related to the curriculum proposal* I made back in 2003. I turned all the second anonymous delivery over to the police.As it appears, the bag and materials were taken from my classroom.Perhaps some of you know that one of my former col... - Excuse me - Perhaps some of you know that one of YOUR former colleagues has been talking to me, and he even has called my house.Your former member shared many enlightening things with me and indicated Board should know certain information. On January 14, 2009 my attorney subpoenaed from the board, Mr. Short and the boards attorney, all the materials from my classroom so that my attorney could look at them and see what had been inventoried from my classroom after I was locked out of my classroom at the end of June 2008. The board's attorney indicated to my attorney that the board did not have anything from my classroom. Testimony by other teachers revealed that the contents of my classroom had been cleaned out, boxed and moved to an open area by the back of the stairs of the middle school known to teachers to be "The Rathole." Teachers' testimony revealed the contents of my room stayed for some time at The Rathole, with open access to anybody who could have taken things or put things into the area. Fast forward one year later. After my attorney subpoenaed the contents from my room, on January 14, 2010 both Mr.Short and I received an anonymous letter, each containing 5 pictures. The pictures contained images of items that exonerated some of the charges against me. On January 15, 2010 my attorney listened to the Board's attorney, and learned that Mr. Short went to look at the items taken from my room to see if the items contained in the photographs from the anonymous letter were with the items kept by Mr. Short, My attorney was very surprised to learn Mr. Short had kept anything from my classroom, and my attorney demanded an immediate Public Records inspection. I went to the inspection, and learned that Mr. Short had actually kept enough iems from my classroom the amount of which would literally fill the back of a truck.

Board Woman:

(says time is up).

John Freshwater:

That's up to you.

Board Woman:

I think that's probably good.

John Freshwater:

Can I read the last paragraph? It's only 3 sentences

Board Woman:

(says no)

John Freshwater:

That's fine, I don't want to ...

The Tim Channel · 10 February 2010

or: if you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.

Just a quibble, but my version of this is more alliterative: If you can't dazzle them with DIAMONDS, baffle them with bullshit. Enjoy.

truthspeaker · 10 February 2010

You’re pretty much right. But my irony tank starts to overflow whenever I encounter Bible-carrying type folks who are completely unaware of commandments by their Lord and Savior in the NEW Testament (so intended for His followers). Things like “Swear no oaths at all,” and “Don’t pray in public.”

Don't forget "give all your money and possessions to the poor".

harold · 10 February 2010

Another obvious possible explanation -

This could be stuff that was in FRESHWATER'S possession all along.

He could have grabbed it from the school a long time ago.

Now he could be brazenly accusing the school board of "holding it back", when he himself had it all along.

Kim · 10 February 2010

I think there is only ONE reason it showed up the way it did. And that is to force the school board to settle at his terms because every incident just prolongs the judicial fight, racking up the bill for the school board. Because he has set his mind on winning (at least at terms he can live with), and he doesn't care how. And if that means he has to ruin the school board, he will do it.

raven · 10 February 2010

Harold: Another obvious possible explanation - This could be stuff that was in FRESHWATER’S possession all along.

holycow quoting MTVernonnews: Anything else that may appear has not been in the board’s possession.” Previously, Freshwater stated he had taken things from the classroom to Trinity Assembly to copy, then returned them to the classroom. “Strangely, materials that are apparently missing are things he [Freshwater] took to the church,” Millstone said. “We [the school board and Millstone] have never seen them.” mountvernonnews.com

That is what Millstone and the school district are, in fact, saying. There are some vastly different versions of what is going on there. They can't all be correct.

fnxtr · 10 February 2010

stevaroni said:
RBH said: ... There's a strong odor of bibliolatry in all of this.
Oh, there's a strong odor of something...

"There ain't nothin' more powerful than the smell of mendacity"

Doc Bill · 10 February 2010

Call me Mr. Optimistic, but the Freshwater hearing is not a court of law, is it? It's a school board thing presided over by a referee.

Couldn't the referee, having grown a pair, simply declare a final date for all deliberations and be done with it? Why should it drag on any longer?

stevaroni · 10 February 2010

Doc Bill said: Couldn't the referee, having grown a pair...

There's your problem. My suggestion. The next time Mount Vernon sits down to write a labor contract with it's teachers, pick an arbitration method where people don't get paid by the hour.

RBH · 10 February 2010

stevaroni said:
Doc Bill said: Couldn't the referee, having grown a pair...
There's your problem. My suggestion. The next time Mount Vernon sits down to write a labor contract with it's teachers, pick an arbitration method where people don't get paid by the hour.

Unfortunately, this particular sort of termination hearing is required by state statute.

Maya · 10 February 2010

RBH said:
stevaroni said:
Doc Bill said: Couldn't the referee, having grown a pair...
There's your problem. My suggestion. The next time Mount Vernon sits down to write a labor contract with it's teachers, pick an arbitration method where people don't get paid by the hour.
Unfortunately, this particular sort of termination hearing is required by state statute.

Is the referee required to grant all these delays or does he have the authority to demand that the parties present their cases in a reasonable amount of calendar time?

JRE · 10 February 2010

This whole thing *might* be comical if thousands of children's educations (three of which are my children) weren't being compromised at every turn.

That said, the visual of two men sneaking through that particular area of wide open farm and soccer fields right by the walking trial by the river, one with a concealed weapon, in the dark of night following the directions of an annonymous person who changed his or her voice over the phone to pick up a mystery package is right out of a soap opera or B movie - which both describe what this has become - made me chuckle.

Stuart Weinstein · 10 February 2010

Kim said: I think there is only ONE reason it showed up the way it did. And that is to force the school board to settle at his terms because every incident just prolongs the judicial fight, racking up the bill for the school board. Because he has set his mind on winning (at least at terms he can live with), and he doesn't care how. And if that means he has to ruin the school board, he will do it.

By now, Freshwater is already in hock up to his eyeballs. He has nothing more to lose.

Kim · 10 February 2010

Stuart Weinstein said:
Kim said: I think there is only ONE reason it showed up the way it did. And that is to force the school board to settle at his terms because every incident just prolongs the judicial fight, racking up the bill for the school board. Because he has set his mind on winning (at least at terms he can live with), and he doesn't care how. And if that means he has to ruin the school board, he will do it.
By now, Freshwater is already in hock up to his eyeballs. He has nothing more to lose.

True, so he has nothing to loose and everything to win with a favorable settlement with the board. As long as he can pressure them in playing at his terms by dragging it out as long as possible.

Mike Elzinga · 10 February 2010

Kim said: True, so he has nothing to loose and everything to win with a favorable settlement with the board. As long as he can pressure them in playing at his terms by dragging it out as long as possible.

Now we know where this current batch of “Republicans” in the US Congress has learned their tactics. This mentality of fanatic fundamentalism has become entrenched in politics as well.

RBH · 10 February 2010

Maya said: Is the referee required to grant all these delays or does he have the authority to demand that the parties present their cases in a reasonable amount of calendar time?

The referee has the power to control the scheduling, subject to consideration of scheduling conflicts among the several lawyers involved. He has not exercised that power at all.

harold · 10 February 2010

RBH -

Could the referee himself be a "Christian double agent"? Allowing the process to be subverted?

(Note - anyone of any religious stance who is familiar with very basic history of Western civilization would instantly note that all of the sneaking and lying that is going on - that's true whether or not the referee is facilitating the nonsense, or is merely hapless - is at odds with traditional views of "Christian morality", even the views held by intolerant and violent historical figures, but the decadent US cult that Freshwater and his ilk call "Christianity" merely amounts to a magic "do anything you want" card for its adherents, ironically coupled with hypocritical condemnation of everyone else.

RBH · 10 February 2010

harold said: RBH - Could the referee himself be a "Christian double agent"? Allowing the process to be subverted?

That's very doubtful. He's the city attorney for a town in Ohio whose council was contemplating opening their meetings with a prayer. He advised against it, telling them it was unconstitutional.

harold · 10 February 2010

RBH -

Well, it's good to hear that at least some tiny proportion of my most paranoid thoughts has turned out not to be true. Because most of my most paranoid thoughts have turned out to be either right on target, or naively optimistic, especially when dealing with creationists.

holycow · 10 February 2010

Wasn't the hearing to continue tomorrow? Is it still proceeding?

Paul Burnett · 10 February 2010

Stuart Weinstein said: By now, Freshwater is already in hock up to his eyeballs. He has nothing more to lose.

You wish - he's a hero to the christofascists. Somewhere there was mention of Freshwater getting money from a "Christian handshake" from his supporters' rallies. And he'll make a mint on the lecture tour - and the book and the movie - after this is all over...if it's ever over.

JimNorth · 10 February 2010

The $45 found in the black bag of tricks has puzzled me for some time. Having been a middle school teacher within the past decade, I can assert very strongly that public educators do not have excess cash available. Even a dime would have been an extraordinary find. Someone mentioned previously that this may have exculpatory value; I'm thinking more along the lines of a "Christian Handshake".

Oh, and as others have pointed out - he burned several kids arms - he needs to be fired. Period.

RBH · 10 February 2010

holycow said: Wasn't the hearing to continue tomorrow? Is it still proceeding?

It had been tentatively scheduled to resume tomorrow, but as far as I can find out it's not happening.

UnMark · 10 February 2010

Nomad said: This was not a simple van de graff generator. The output of tesla coils is sometimes treated as as harmless as the static zaps you get from a van de graff machine, but it's potentially more dangerous. In this case it appears that the damage was done to the surface of the student's skin, but I know of situations when someone has played with a tesla coil and ended up getting damage to his muscles because the current went through them instead of the surface of his skin, where RF electricity is usually assumed to go.

A little late to the party, but I think it merits a response. Skin effect in a human is a common misnomer when talking about tesla coils. When dealing with the few hundred kHz range that small tesla coils operate in, and rather resistive human skin, the skin effect is on the order of a foot in a human. Instead of flowing over the outer surface of one's skin, the electrons flow primarily through the low-resistance nerves and blood vessels. And, as the body can't really detect internal heating, damage tends to go unnoticed for a while (hours). Speaking as one who's built a couple of these, Tesla coils, even small ones, are not toys... though they can put on a pretty impressive show when done correctly: http://www.arcattack.com

seabiscuit · 11 February 2010

As expected the hearing scheduled for today has been cancelled with no further dates scheduled at this time.........ughhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Jane · 11 February 2010

I suppose they are left to delay as long as possible, so he can get free health insurance..........

Gary Hurd · 11 February 2010

Marion Delgado said: Richard: Periodically I mail or message Lauri Lebo summaries of the stuff going on in the Freshwater case. It's wonderful you actually had her out to your classes, and it almost shows foresight. It's a secular miracle!

It would be great if Richard and Lauri did a new book. nudge

Paul Burnett · 11 February 2010

Gary Hurd said: It would be great if Richard and Lauri did a new book. nudge

It would be even greater if their book came out before Freshwater's book. nudge nudge

RBH · 11 February 2010

seabiscuit said: As expected the hearing scheduled for today has been cancelled with no further dates scheduled at this time.........ughhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Yup. All scheduled February dates have now been canceled.

raven · 11 February 2010

It would be great if Richard and Lauri did a new book. nudge

I just finished Matthew Chapman's (Darwin descendant) book, 40 days and 40 nights. And Edward Hume's Monkey Girl. Both about Dover Both good. Matthew Chapman was first person, generally sympathetic to all people, and had a style that was riveting. An unusual style that reads like a touchy feely soap opera but works anyway. Hume's book was more comprehensive about the issues and science. Two more to go. There is a book in all this. The first person I was there and lived it POV works well. It will probably go on for a lot longer. At least Dover ended.

scott pilutik · 12 February 2010

I've not had time to read all the comments, and haven't followed this case for awhile, although I made myself familiar with all the facts early on in the saga. My sense, based on the school's attorney's statement and the MV News story, is that Freshwater and/or his attorney want to enlarge the case by whatever means necessary and are opportunistically framing shit as shinola. The anonymous source is obviously sympathetic to Freshwater, so seems like the obvious suspect to have placed the bag in the first place--after all, if you knew enough information about the bag's contents and its location, you'd likely know who placed it (if it weren't you), and you'd provide a greater benefit to Freshwater by outing that person as trying to destroy evidence beneficial to Freshwater.

I think Freshwater would like everyone to believe that a school official threw them out and some low level school worker became aware of this and placed the call anonymously, to protect their job. That's a bit more convoluted than the Occam's Razor version, which is that the anon source engineered it all. On the other hand, if Freshwater's attorney sought this material in a subpoena, it helps his ability to frame this as the school trashing it.

That all said, it seems ludicrous that any of this 'evidence' exonerates him, else it would've been sought awhile ago. Why after so much time are a bunch of photographs of his classroom relevant? The very likely aren't, but Freshwater needs to drag this out as long as possible. His religious celebrity, to which he's undoubtedly become addicted, is inexorably tied to his martyrdom (like so many other fundamentalists). To the martyr, the ends will justify the means every time, and reality sometimes needs a bit of fudging in order to make everyone see the persecution as clearly as they see it, including engineering

Ultimately, it doesn't really matter how the bag got there, although Freshwater's supporters would like the vague implication that the villain school is out to get Freshwater to become the central issue, even without the facts to support it. If they can get everyone talking about that, then perhaps, they likely think, irrelevant evidence can transform into relevant evidence by virtue of the fact that the school 'tried to hide it.' That's not how it works in court, and likely won't here, but there you go.

Dale Husband · 12 February 2010

How much longer is this Freshwater sage going to go on? I suspect if it were not for religious bigots screwing up the works, Freshwater would have been fired, put on trial for child abuse, and sent to prison by now.

Marion Delgado · 12 February 2010

Freshwater shouldn't continue teaching, he's sneaky and insubordinate.

But no, he wouldn't be on trial or sent to prison. Probably a zillion small town schools think Tesla coils are just cute Van DeGraf generators and harmless. That would make that part of it at worst a status crime, not even worthy, all by itself, of getting him fired (or they'd have fired all the other teachers at Mt. Vernon Middle School that did it, too). It's more a small-town/rural kids are tough attitude than fundamentalism at work.

It's a nice excuse to get rid of Freshwater, though.

Just Bob · 13 February 2010

Marion Delgado said: Freshwater shouldn't continue teaching, he's sneaky and insubordinate. But no, he wouldn't be on trial or sent to prison. Probably a zillion small town schools think Tesla coils are just cute Van DeGraf generators and harmless. That would make that part of it at worst a status crime, not even worthy, all by itself, of getting him fired (or they'd have fired all the other teachers at Mt. Vernon Middle School that did it, too). It's more a small-town/rural kids are tough attitude than fundamentalism at work. It's a nice excuse to get rid of Freshwater, though.

I second that. Other teachers did it, the admin knew he was doing it for years, kids ASKED him to do it--all of which doesn't make it a good idea, but it's hard to call that a crime. I'm leary of firing a teacher on an "excuse", though. This excuse, for instance, could lead to the firing of perhaps hundreds of excellent science teachers who have done this for years and seen it done by others. If we realize that it's really not a good thing to do, we send out a memo. We have a science department meeting and tell everyone not to do that anymore. We put it in the manual for new teachers. We don't pick one guy and fire him and make all teachers who have ever done it afraid that they may be led out in handcuffs the next day. We fire Freshwater for the REAL crime he committed: promoting his religion while being paid with MY tax money, and teaching that the very science that he was hired to teach is WRONG.

Ryan Cunningham · 13 February 2010

scott pilutik said: I've not had time to read all the comments, and haven't followed this case for awhile, although I made myself familiar with all the facts early on in the saga. My sense, based on the school's attorney's statement and the MV News story, is that Freshwater and/or his attorney want to enlarge the case by whatever means necessary and are opportunistically framing shit as shinola. The anonymous source is obviously sympathetic to Freshwater, so seems like the obvious suspect to have placed the bag in the first place--after all, if you knew enough information about the bag's contents and its location, you'd likely know who placed it (if it weren't you), and you'd provide a greater benefit to Freshwater by outing that person as trying to destroy evidence beneficial to Freshwater. I think Freshwater would like everyone to believe that a school official threw them out and some low level school worker became aware of this and placed the call anonymously, to protect their job. That's a bit more convoluted than the Occam's Razor version, which is that the anon source engineered it all. On the other hand, if Freshwater's attorney sought this material in a subpoena, it helps his ability to frame this as the school trashing it. That all said, it seems ludicrous that any of this 'evidence' exonerates him, else it would've been sought awhile ago. Why after so much time are a bunch of photographs of his classroom relevant? The very likely aren't, but Freshwater needs to drag this out as long as possible. His religious celebrity, to which he's undoubtedly become addicted, is inexorably tied to his martyrdom (like so many other fundamentalists). To the martyr, the ends will justify the means every time, and reality sometimes needs a bit of fudging in order to make everyone see the persecution as clearly as they see it, including engineering Ultimately, it doesn't really matter how the bag got there, although Freshwater's supporters would like the vague implication that the villain school is out to get Freshwater to become the central issue, even without the facts to support it. If they can get everyone talking about that, then perhaps, they likely think, irrelevant evidence can transform into relevant evidence by virtue of the fact that the school 'tried to hide it.' That's not how it works in court, and likely won't here, but there you go.

Very well put, sir! The only thing I'd say you're missing is the fact that Freshwater gains more than celebrity and martyrdom from prolonging this trial; he also increases the cost of the trial for the school district and the likelihood that they will settle with him.

Marion Delgado · 16 February 2010

What should we put in the next bag?

I'll start:

The Pearl of Great Price, a slow boat to China, and a hooker with a heart of gold.

Just Bob · 16 February 2010

Marion Delgado said: What should we put in the next bag? I'll start: The Pearl of Great Price, a slow boat to China, and a hooker with a heart of gold.

Hammers. Nothing but hammers, since AIG-type folks seem to be about as smart as a bag of the same.

Sheikh_Mahandi · 17 February 2010

For the next bag, lets give them an Alethiometer !
"It is the Alethiometer. It tells the truth. As for how to read it, you'll have to learn by yourself." maybe they would be so shocked and ashamed by the result that they would go into voluntary exile.

Just Bob · 17 February 2010

Sheikh_Mahandi said: For the next bag, lets give them an Alethiometer ! "It is the Alethiometer. It tells the truth. As for how to read it, you'll have to learn by yourself." maybe they would be so shocked and ashamed by the result that they would go into voluntary exile.

Good idea. Let's add a dark meter (don't know the technical name). It was being developed some years back by a bunch of creationists who were sure that darkness was an actual thing, not just an absence of light, because--get this--God separated the darkness from the light. So a light meter registering zero wouldn't be detecting the presence of darkness, just the lack of light. Maybe it's a major research division of the Great Baraminology Project. Seriously. And they elect congressmen.

DS · 17 February 2010

Well you know dark is faster than light, because no mater how fast light travels dark is already there! So I guess the speed of light is no an absolute limit after all. :):):)

Jesse · 12 March 2010

Given the weirdness of this whole ordeal, I have to say that the true name of the Lord worshiped by Freshwater and his caddywompus compatriots is not in any way related to or derived from YHWH. The true name of the Lord must be Xenu. It is the only explanation that fits the cult-like strangeness afoot.

I wonder if any DC-8s have landed in Mt. Vernon lately?

Bbuff · 8 April 2010

Mr. Freshwater was given access to his room so that he could remove any personal items before he was "locked out." He deliberately left his Bible behind. School district personnel subsequently packed anything else that appeared to belong to Mr. Freshwater in a box which was taken to the Mount Vernon City Board Office in a separate building. Anything else that the current occupant of the classroom found and didn't want to use may have been placed somewhere in the middle school, but this is spectulation. I imagine that some do-good Freshwater supporter may have found a box like this with unwanted classroom paraphenalia and made some clandestine attempt to get the box. In the meantime, it's hard to imagine having a pickup truck full of personal material in a classroom....I would rather imagine that if he had that much material, it was probably curricular in nature. It's clear to see that Freshwater supporters are engaging in some flights of fantasy with their conspiracy delusions....all this cloak and dagger behavior! It makes no sense whatsoever and I believe it is only designed to prolong a process that should have ended over a year ago.