Waaay off topic

I know you're not exactly dieing for my opinion since I'm not a frequent commentator here (although you're just going to have to take my word about "daily reader," "nothing to say," yadda, yadda, yadda).

So here's the deal:

* A limerick is not a limerick unless it's dirty. A clean poem that meets the metrical and rhyme scheme of a limerick may be a fine piece of doggerel, but without the frisson of sexual content, it's not a limerick.

* The really important thing about haiku is that it begins with an observation about nature, and then ties that into human behavior. You can count syllables until the cows come home, but if it's not a brief depiction of nature tied to human culture, you don't have a haiku. In fact, all that business about counting syllables is secondary to the rules about content -- even in Japanese.

* Publish the freakin' macaronic verse already. Publish it under your name, and attribute it to Anonymous, if the author is not willing to do so. I say this as someone who has, against his better judgment, submitted verse comments to blogs in languages I barely know, including German, Portuguese, and Spanish. So far, no native speakers have complained. A remarkably tolerant lot, the Foreign.

What could be more appropriate than a more or less off topic comment in an off topic thread. It is the translation of the title of a French song "Solange, tu es la" into German "Solange du da bist".

I disagree. A limerick may be a bona fide limerick if it is not sexual--it may be merely execrable or disgusting

.

Can't believe this hasn't been mentioned yet, but if it's macaronic (& no, I never heard the word before) it must be about the FSM, which makes it on-topic. ;-)

This is just the kind of off-topic stuff I love to read about. It's important to advertise the fact that scientists are human, and it's important to insert science into art of all sorts. Back in the day, the McGarrigle sisters recorded a song about the love story of sodium and chlorine.

Back in the day, the McGarrigle sisters recorded a song about the love story of sodium and chlorine.

I am one of those who argued that a proper limerick must be dirty; though I used to read Edward Lear's so-called limericks to my kids, I always considered them perversions.

Among the few books I have read more than once is Some Limericks by Norman Douglas. I bought it in 1967 in a Grove Press edition, some time after the U.S. Supreme Court decision on, I think, Tropic of Cancer. The book was originally published in 1928. It cost the princely sum of $4.00; you can get it used today for not much more. It contains 50 limericks, which Douglas collected from anonymous friends on both sides of the Atlantic; one of the few things he gives Americans credit for is their ability to write limericks. Those limericks that are not filthy are generally blasphemous. A very few are too offensive, even for me.

Douglas's only other claim to fame is a novel, South Wind, published in 1917, which I have also read more than once.

That must have been a salty story. Those two had a strong bond.

— Henry J

Let's speak of the family Stein / There's Gert and there's Ep and there's Ein / Gert's poems are bunk / Ep's statues are junk / And no-one can understand Ein.

by backchannels do you mean ATBC?

the McGuire Sisters sang “Sugartime.”

This obviously needs a second verse to cover the more recent member of the family who got Expelled.

— Kevin B

Marion Delgado said: by backchannels do you mean ATBC?

Richard, if you wish to post my macaronic exercise, I have no objections whatsoever, with an understanding that I have no claim of its being a good poetry. It was just for fun, concocted in about 10 minutes, and I thought it was relevant to the topic we discussed on the listserve in question. Cheers!

HA! I knew that the poem had to have been either from Mark, or Reed.

(Howdy Mark)

I'll post it later tonight if I get it to format properly in a blockquote box.

OK, I never comment here, but I decided to throw this in just because I can't imagine any other situation where it would be even vaguely on topic. The following is a snippet of an E-mail exchange I recently had with my son, who was off at college. It was triggered by a terrible typo in a Haiku I sent him...

Chris-

You were the best haiku creator
But I fixed it a couple days later
Now to limericks I've moved
and I'm better than you
Due to your spelling of "regridgerator"

Roger-

I guess poetry ought to be festive
But your latest attempt made me restive
Of your limericks you boasted
But the one that you posted
Was inadequately suggestive

A limerick ought not to be flirty
Too tame or excessively wordy
Classics of the art
Always mention a fart
Then become inexcusably dirty

Alas, I was raised with some couth
And I'm getting quite long in the tooth
So I genr'ly avoids
Scatalogical woids
And my limericks don't really go over very well. Uh... forsooth!

Ha! Pushkin wrote several poems, some of them pretty long, where every odd line was in Russian and every even line in French, all with perfect rhymes and impeccable metric.

The concept of a macaronic verse was new for me as well as for Matt. Hiwever, I doubt it is indeed "the most difficult" form of poetry. So I decided to try my hand in writing a short macaronic doggerel. I decided to make it a bit more complicated, namely writing two stances, with the following format: every first and third line in Russian, every second in English and every fourth in Hebrew. It took about ten minutes, and here it is (since I could not type Hebrew characters, the lines in Hebrew are rendered in Latin characters: Kак стихами не увлечься Wait a minute,what a luck: Если укреплять предплечье, Gam ken iad ihie khazak.. Так стихом улучшишь речь ты, Thus fulfilling sweetest dream, Так что лучше не перечь ты Im khaver koreh shirim. Here is its full translation: I can't help but like poetry Wait a minute, what a luck: If you exercise your shoulder Also your hand will get stronger. So through poetry you'll improve your speech Thus fulfilling sweetest dream. Hence better don't resist If your friend reads poetry aloud. The metrics and the rhymes in that piece are faultless. Regarding the Hebrew part, Matt probably can ascertain it. As to the Russian part, you'll have to trust me. As to overall "quality," it is of course a primitive doggerel, but its "macaronic" properties are there, and it was very easy to concoct it.

There was a doc doc with a Weasel

Who said "The Design's on the easel.

My Microsoft box

Has got one that locks,

But only when running on diesel."

There are some who would say Isaac Asimov was not a literary 'expert' but that's because they have not read any of his non-fiction stuff.
He has written a number of articles on what the limerick is and its history, and at least one book of limericks.
He states a true limerick must be 'dirty', 'insulting' or 'off color' depending on how you say it. with the emphasis on sex.
But the 'common' person who has no real understanding of the word 'theory' and have changed the meanings of words at a whim (i.e. 'I am gay' does not mean what it use to mean) has 'cleaned up' the limerick so that it is the 4 line rhyme that is now called limerick.
But a really 'good' limerick still has to have the pun, double meaning, dirty connotation to be effective.

Gary Hurd: Thanks, Gary, I appreciate your kind words.

Sorry, those nice words were from Richard. Anyway, I appreciate both Gary's and Richard's posts. Thanks.

Trivia question: Which Beatles song was macaronic?

OriGuy said: Trivia question: Which Beatles song was macaronic?

OriGuy said: Trivia question: Which Beatles song was macaronic?

I cannot express in words how disspointed I was to find that "macaronic" did not refer to poetry sung to the tune of "Macarena"

From Stephen J. Gould: While Titian was mixing rose madder/his model reclined on a ladder/This position to Titian suggested coition/so he climbed up the ladder and had her.

Gould didn't write that limerick (I have it in a book published in 1956), but it is better as "mounted the ladder."

rpsms said: I cannot express in words how disspointed I was to find that "macaronic" did not refer to poetry sung to the tune of "Macarena"

Dave Luckett said:

OriGuy said: Trivia question: Which Beatles song was macaronic?

Michelle

This comment is so off topic from the way offtopic it brings back to on topic.
(Good luck parsing that statement)

I like the discussions about limericks and all, but it is almost a full day gone since the
appointment of the theistic evolutionist Francis Collins to head NIH.
And still there is no discussion about it yet here at PT? Big O seems to be genuinely looking for compromise candidates (unlike Bill Clinton).

From what I remember about his views, he does not deny that evolution happened or that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old. Just that it all happened at the Will of God. I usually do not argue with such a believer, as long as they dont pretend this view is scientific and should be taught at
tax payer funded schools. Live and let live.

F Collins is under crossed fires

His personal worldview requires

Apologetics

Ditto genetics

And gets flak from Dembski and Myers

But he rejected creationism and intelligent design, arguing that "evolution from a common ancestor is clearly true. If there was any lingering doubt about the evidence from the fossil record, the study of DNA provides the strongest possible proof of our relatedness to all other living things."

Ravilyn Sanders -

There's nothing "compromised" about the choice of Collins. Like virtually all of Obama's scientific appointments to date, he's extremely qualified.

The primary argument against him would be that merely being religious disqualifies him, which I would regard as discrimination.

Call me an old-fashioned, tolerant, bleeding-heart liberal, but I'm happy to see any highly qualified atheist, agnostic, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Mormon, or apatheist scientist in that position.

I'm not religious myself, but it's patently obvious that some highly qualified scientists are, and as long as it's a private matter, it shouldn't be a basis for discrimination against them.

There was a young man named Obama
Who was elected president with much drama
He said I believe in evolution
So don't start a revolution
We'll deal with the creationists mañana

Call me an old-fashioned, tolerant, bleeding-heart liberal, but I’m happy to see any highly qualified atheist, agnostic, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Mormon, or apatheist scientist in that position.

— harold

... but it is almost a full day gone since the appointment of the theistic evolutionist Francis Collins to head NIH. And still there is no discussion about it yet here at PT?

Frank J -

If someone "earns" something, but it is denied for an irrelevant reason, that is an example of "intolerance".

Matt Young -

I strongly agree that Collins appears to be a terrible philosopher/theologian. He has no training in those fields, and his sparse interviews and writings on those subjects are naive and unconvincing indeed.

However, as a biologist, he has been gifted and productive, and shown a strong facility for administering large and complex projects. He is actually one of a few rather obvious choices for the position.

If someone “earns” something, but it is denied for an irrelevant reason, that is an example of “intolerance”.

— harold

Frank J said:

If someone “earns” something, but it is denied for an irrelevant reason, that is an example of “intolerance”.

— harold

Put that way, it's clear that the anti-evolution activists who peddle "strengths and weaknesses" are the intolerant ones. Unfortunately, ~75% of the public, including ~25% that claim to accept evolution, that has been fooled into thinking that we critics are the intolerant ones.

Let's condense the above to a sound bite:

Earned intolerance isn't intolerance.

Henry J said: Let's condense the above to a sound bite: Earned intolerance isn't intolerance.

質量管理不是反革命! "Quality control is not counter-revolutionary!"

Put that way, it’s clear that the anti-evolution activists who peddle “strengths and weaknesses” are the intolerant ones.

FYI: Use the ... construct to compose verse:

Aeneadum genetrix, hominum divomque voluptas,
alma Venus, caeli subter labentia signa
quae mare navigerum, quae terras frugiferentis
concelebras, per te quoniam genus omne animantum
concipitur visitque exortum lumina solis:
te, dea, te fugiunt venti, te nubila caeli
adventumque tuum, tibi suavis daedala tellus
summittit flores, tibi rident aequora ponti
placatumque nitet diffuso lumine caelum.

Click "reply" to see the source.

Kevin B said: F Collins is under crossed fires
His personal worldview requires
Apologetics
Ditto genetics
And gets flak from Dembski and Myers

John Kwok said: Nioely done, Kevin B. It brought a smile to my lips as I was reading it:

Kevin B said: F Collins is under crossed fires
His personal worldview requires
Apologetics
Ditto genetics
And gets flak from Dembski and Myers

HP said: A limerick is not a limerick unless it's dirty. A clean poem that meets the metrical and rhyme scheme of a limerick may be a fine piece of doggerel, but without the frisson of sexual content, it's not a limerick.

Kevin B said: F Collins is under crossed fires
His personal worldview requires
Apologetics
Ditto genetics
And gets flak from Dembski and Myers