We are excited to announce that we've added a new Dynamation to our site! This dyna focuses on our Creator through a poetic story and message that we believe will encourage believers and start the gears turning in minds turned from God.Mahan cross examination: Hamilton elected to forgo cross since Mahan will be brought back when Freshwater presents his case in chief. Katherine Button direct examination Kate Button (as she prefers to be called) is a student at Ohio Dominican University, the daughter of Elle Button, a middle school science teacher in the Mt. Vernon schools, and had Freshwater for 8th grade science in 2002-2003. Button testified that Freshwater's class was very scattered, jumping from topic to topic. She said he often read to the class from Chicken Soup for the Teenage Soul and showed videos of Freshwater's year of missionary work in China and pictures and talk of his smoke jumping days in Idaho. She said that Freshwater mentioned intelligent design. (Recall that 2002-2003 was the year Freshwater made his "Objective Origins Policy" proposal to the school.) She testified that Freshwater told them there was new evidence that dinosaurs were still around when humans were on earth. She recognized the 'Giraffe' and Dinosaur Extinction handouts as those she had given to her mother, having brought them home from Freshwater's class. There were strikeouts on one of the handouts, and Button testified that in the original she could still read "biblical" through a strikeout. With reference to carbon dating, Button testified that Freshwater said it wasn't really a [blank - missed a word] science and students shouldn't really trust or believe it. Asked by Millstone if Freshwater taught that evolution wasn't really a scientific theory, she answered that he did, that he said "it couldn't be proven wrong". Kate Button cross examination On cross examination, Button was asked if she took the handouts home to her mother during the school year. She replied that she had done so, often the same day they were handed out. Asked what her mother said about them, Button replied that there was little or no discussion, that her mother didn't talk about other teachers at home. Asked whether Freshwater used "creation" in class she replied that he did, and she also affirmed that he used the phrase "intelligent design." There was some blur concerning with the several handouts associated with Kate and Elle Button. In 2002-2003 Freshwater apparently also gave Elle Button, the teacher, copies of his handouts after the school day, sometimes sent via Kate. It wasn't clear if they were the same handouts. Kate mentioned, for example, that on her version of one handout "biblical" was visible through a manual strikeout on the paper, and Kate had noted in the margin "Does God exist?" She couldn't remember the reason she made that notation. Hamilton asked what her grade was from Freshwater. She replied that she got a A or a B, and that she didn't pay much attention to grades. Asked what she paid attention to, she replied "What I learn." Finally in cross examination Button testified that her mother had disapproved of her coming forward to testify, on the ground that it might elicit community disapproval. Asked on redirect why she came forward in spite of her mother's disapproval, Button said it was something she had wanted to do since 8th grade. Recross examination was deferred, and the hearing was adjourned for the day, month, and year. It will resume on January 6, 2009. Later (if I feel real ambitious) I may write a summary that attempts to assess the state of testimony at this point. Commenters are welcome to post their versions of such a summary.
Freshwater Day 6: Another student, another cross
Day 6 of the Freshwater administrative hearing was on October 31, 2008. Testifying were Paul Souhrada, an editor of the Columbus Dispatch and the parent of a student in Freshwater's class; Souhrada's son Simon; Richard Cunningham, chairman of the high school science department; Katie Beach, a middle school intervention specialist; Kerri Mahan, a middle school special education teacher; and Katherine Button, a former student in Freshwater's 8th grade science class.
Important note: I did not get to the hearing in time to get a seat for the morning session. My summary of the morning (Paul and Simon Souhrada, Cunningham, and Beach) is based on an hour-long interview later that day with two people who were at the morning session and who took notes. So it's second-hand information to me and third-hand to you. I did have a seat for the afternoon session (Mahan and Button). For another view on that morning's testimony see the Columbus Dispatch story. I've used that story and the Mount Vernon News story as additional sources for the Friday morning session. Reporters Dean Narcisco (Dispatch) and Pam Schehl (News) were at the morning session.
More below the fold.
Paul Souhrada testimony
Paul Souhrada is the parent of a Mt. Vernon High School student who had Freshwater for 8th grade science in 2005-2006. Souhrada testified that he was shocked by a handout his son brought home from Freshwater's class titled "Darwin's Theory of Evolution: The Premise and the Problem" during the 2005-2006 school year. He had several discussions with his son about that and other issues the son brought home from Freshwater's class. According to an April 19, 2008, story in the Dispatch Freshwater was instructed to cease using that handout in 2006 when a parent complained about it. Souradha testified that he complained to then-Superintendent Jeff Maley about the handout that year.
The source of the handout was apparently All About God Ministries. I'm informed that the piece has been modified since 2006 but that the current form, linked here, is similar to that used by Freshwater.
There was no cross examination.
Simon Souhrada testimony
As noted, Simon is a junior at Mt. Vernon high school and had Freshwater for 8th grade science in 2005-2006. He testified that Freshwater also burned his arm with a cross using the Tesla coil but that he didn't report it to his parents. He said that the mark was visible for two or three weeks.
Simon testified that Freshwater was a "solid teacher" until he got to evolution. He said Freshwater taught that there are problems with carbon dating and that he started using handouts like the "Premise" handout. Simon testified that he did not recall Freshwater using the phrases "intelligent design" or "creationism."
Simon testified that he overheard Freshwater tell some other students that "Catholics aren't Christians." As the Dispatch story linked above reports, when Hamilton asked on cross examination why Simon remembered that phrase four years later, Simon replied that he is Catholic. Asked if he was offended by it, Simon replied that he isn't easily offended.
Richard Cunningham testimony
Dick Cunningham was chairman of the high school science department over the relevant period, 2002-3 to 2007-8. He testified that he investigated the source of the "Premise" handout by using a web tool for teachers to detect plagiarism, and found a 100% match with the All About God Ministries version referred to above. He also noted that Freshwater's 'dragon' handout also appeared to be from that site.
Cunningham testified that he met with Freshwater, Schutte, and Mr. Koons (middle school principal) in 2002-2003 when the district was aligning its curriculum with the new state standards. They apparently scheduled another meeting for April 2003, but by then Freshwater had proposed the Intelligent Design Network's "Objective Origins Policy" to the science curriculum committee and it's not clear if that meeting occurred.
Cunningham testified that a "theory" in science is not guesswork, and that there are no viable alternatives to the modern theory of evolution.
In cross examination Cunningham conceded that he was not good about handing in lesson plans, that he had not observed Freshwater actually teaching, and that he has no information that Freshwater explicitly taught creationism or intelligent design.
Hamilton confronted Cunningham with an email from Cunningham to (someone) inquiring about his reimbursement for attending a conference/workshop on the topic "The Earth is Flat." Hamilton inquired whether that was an alternative theory, and what was wrong with Freshwater having materials about alternative theories in his classroom. Cunningham responded that the conference was about technology and its effect in connecting people (it was based on Tom Friedman's book of the same title). Hamilton asked Cunningham "What shape is the earth?" Cunningham replied "Round." On redirect Cunningham clarified the nature of the conference. Millstone asked if Hamilton's reference to "The Earth is Flat" wasn't just a red herring. On objection from Hamilton the remark was struck from the record.
Katie Beach testimony
Katie Beach is a special needs intervention specialist (formerly called tutors) and worked with special needs students in Freshwater's classroom for most of the 2007-2008 academic year. She testified that in his science class Freshwater referred to believing the Bible and that it is contradictory to what he teaches. She testified that Freshwater described hydrosphere theory in class and that in that context he referred to a flood and a boat, though she didn't recall whether Freshwater specifically mentioned Noah.
According to the Dispatch story linked above, she testified that Freshwater also told students to refer to their Bible for additional science research and that the Big Bang theory couldn't explain how a complex world could exist. With reference to Big Bang theory, she testified that Freshwater told students to refer to the Bible for an alternative theory.
She testified that Freshwater told students that a brontosaurus could not have existed since its brain would explode due to problems -- blood pressure? -- associated with the length of its neck. (That's a new one on me -- I've never run into that claim and couldn't find it in a fast web search. I'd welcome more info on the claim.)
She testified that Freshwater used purported dating anomalies of debris from the Mt. St. Helen eruption to discredit scientific dating methods. (Recall that was probably a reference to Steve Austin's mis-sampling.)
Beach testified that she left the room when Freshwater was discussing Easter, since she thought it was inappropriate. She testified that she promptly enforced the new permission slip policy with her special needs students.
Kerri Mahan testimony
Kerri Mahan was a special education teacher in 2007-2008 who worked an hour a day in Freshwater's classroom. She's now a math teacher. Mt. Vernon uses an inclusion approach to special needs education where the students are placed in 'regular' classes and special ed teachers work with them in the context of those 'regular' classes.
Mahan testified that she saw the religious materials in Freshwater's classroom, including religious-themed posters, the stickers on cabinet doors with Bible verses, and bibles in boxes in the back of the room.
She testified that Freshwater used the four handouts hinting at ID/creationism identified in the investigator's report and in prior testimony from students. She testified that there was a class debate about evolution and creationism that lasted the best part of a class period. She said that hydrosphere theory was taught, and described it in the same general terms as students had previously used in testimony. She doesn't recall whether Freshwater related it to a flood. She testified that Freshwater suggested that dinosaurs and humans lived together on earth.
She couldn't remember if Freshwater discussed alternatives to Big Bang theory, but that he suggested that radio carbon dating may be faulty, and that its validity is harder to establish as things get older. (Note, by the way, the phrase used throughout the hearing by everyone has been "carbon dating," not "radiometric dating.")
Mahan remembered an extra-credit assignment concerning how the date of Easter is determined, but did not remember a discussion of the meaning of Easter. She remembered Freshwater teaching the periodic table of the elements.
Asked about a series of videos, Mahan did not remember whether videos on the Loch Ness monster, Mt. St. Helen's, or Kent Hovind were shown, but she did specifically remember "The Watchmaker" being shown in class. Recall that Zachary Dennis testified to the effect that it was shown in class, but Freshwater testified (same link) that it was shown only in FCA at his daughter's suggestion. Mahan's testimony corroborates that of Zachary and contradicts Freshwater's testimony in this respect.
More on the source of The Watchmaker:
33 Comments
Joshua Zelinsky · 2 November 2008
I'm perplexed by the whole thing about the Flat Earth thing. This is a well known turn of phrase to talk about technology, (the most well known variant being "The World if Flat" by Thomas Friedman). I have to wonder fs Freshwater's lawyer is so scientifically illiterate that he thinks that maybe there are some flat earthers out there and that people might want to teach it in the public schools? Or was he just being tendentious as suggested by the comment struck from the record?
RBH · 2 November 2008
Beats me. As I noted, I wasn't at the morning session so I have no particular insight from non-verbal cues. The phrase I used is second-hand; it may have been "The World is Flat" in the testimony.
DS · 2 November 2008
This would make a great movie. It could play as a double feature with Inherit the Wind. Now who can we get to play Spencer Tracy (I mean Henry Drummond)?
Flint · 2 November 2008
Are these hearings strictly to determine if Freshwater has been wrongfully terminated, or is there any sense that the administration is under some heat for having been aware of Freshwater using his science classes as a pulpit for his ministry for years without any substantive redirection? From these detailed descriptions of the hearings, it comes across that Freshwater's actions certainly weren't clandestine - boxes of bibles, posters and quotes everywhere, handouts right and left, kids branded with crosses year after year!
Alternatively, based on these hearings, can some action be taken to make administrative changes to prevent these public schools from being turned into religious instruction?
Random Lurker · 2 November 2008
The comment about the brontosaurus (which doesn't actually exist for those that know their childhood dinosaurs) comes from the creation science argument about the giraffe. It goes along the lines of "Because it's neck is so long, it's brain would explode from blood pressure as it lowers it's head to drink." It's an IC argument, that the valves and such in the vascular system that prevent this from happening could not have evolved gradually or the animal would die. Forgetting of course that the neck length also evolved gradually... hmmm... oops.
My apologies but I don't have a source. I recall seeing it in a video.
kevin · 2 November 2008
I found this on brontosaur's blood pressure (and lifting power):
http://www.kronia.com/symposium/holden.txt
But it doesn't seem to be using that as a creationist argument but trying to provie that the force of gravity on earth changed. Very weird site overall.
RBH · 2 November 2008
Larry Boy · 3 November 2008
First: I'd like to thank RBH for these post. These proceedings fascinate me, so I appreciate your effort in communicating the details.
So we note that there is fairly incontrovertible evidence at this point that freshwater has lied several times. I wonder weather he actually knows that he has lied, or does he truly believe that he just forgot that he showed "The Watchmaker" in class?
(I often deceive myself when I am ashamed of something I've done. It seems clear that this is what Freshwater is doing.)
Stacy S. · 3 November 2008
Paul Burnett · 3 November 2008
eric · 3 November 2008
From the Columbia Dispatch: "Because of attorney scheduling conflicts, the hearing won't resume until Jan. 6."
Aaahhrrgh. I hope that when this long-drawn out affair is over, PT collects all of Richard's excellent posts in one place so the story can be read from start to finish.
Marv Levi · 3 November 2008
If only we were all smart enough to believe in Panspermia and beneficial mutations this would be a better world.
Belief in GOD... unscientific!
Belief in aliens.... rational! Let's go with that.
JM · 3 November 2008
Note, by the way, the phrase used throughout the hearing by everyone has been “carbon dating,” not “radiometric dating.”
So what is it with creationists - and the general public they influence - and their apparent belief that geologists and palaeontologists use (only?!) radiocarbon dating**? Why are they apparently vaguely aware of this dating method but not others? It's a misapprehension, nay - obsession - that I've come across in other creationists. I wonder whether this meme is passed from one to the other, none of them thinking to check their facts. Alas, this general phenomenon is one I've also come across before.
** Even archaeologists (dealing with the ~60Ky reach of radiocarbon dating) use additional physical dating methods (thermoluminescence, dendrochronology etc).
Henry J · 3 November 2008
stevaroni · 3 November 2008
RBH · 3 November 2008
Political comments will be tossed to the Bathroom Wall, folks.
Mike in Ontario · 4 November 2008
RBH · 4 November 2008
eric · 4 November 2008
Anton Mates · 4 November 2008
I'm struck by how awesome some of these kids are. Zach already demonstrated his courage amply, but based on her testimony, Kate Button owns.
Anton Mates · 4 November 2008
(And yes, Kate still counts as a "kid," because I'm all elderly and stuff.)
RBH · 4 November 2008
Frank J · 5 November 2008
OK, I'll ask again now that I have read in gory detail what Freshwater taught and how he taught it.
Has the DI commented on this case?
They have made it clear that they do not approve of teaching anti-evolution pseudoscience that way (because they prefer a sneakier approach to misleading students). Citing this example would be a perfect opportunity to reinforce their position and distance themselves from biblical creationism.
RBH · 5 November 2008
ravilyn sanders · 5 November 2008
Frank J · 6 November 2008
RBH: Thanks. A few months ago I, and a few others who are better at web searching, found nothing too. I would guess that by now someone brought it up at UcD and it was either not posted or quickly deleted.
I would also guess that most critics would just assume that the DI would be supportive of Freshwater. But it's not that simple, because he undermines their stealth strategy.
Frank J · 6 November 2008
If I may tangent onto other science teachers...
I often recall that my 8th and 9th grade general science teachers (NJ public school, 1967-9) taught a little bit of evolution, but I can't recall if my 10th grade biology teacher even mentioned it. The latter was very uninspiring in general. I don't recall any creationism or "weaknesses" of evolution, but it was taught so diluted that, like most non-biology majors I came away with a caricatured view until I started catching up on my own ~25 years later.
I chose chemistry as a career in grade school, and often wondered if a better biology teacher might have changed my mind.
jasonmitchell · 6 November 2008
Kudo's to my high school science teachers - Jo Black - Freshman Biology (using BSCS curriculum) and Bob McCann - Senior (AP prep) Biology - both did not compromise in the teaching of evolution as a cornerstone of biology (1983-1986, suburban Chicago, IL) They inspired me to be a Biology teacher myself (I am certified secondary teacher in the field of Biology, Physical Science (Earth Science) and Chemistry w/ endorsements for Social studies and Physics ) I left the field really before starting - finding a teaching job in 1994 +/- didn't work out and I work in a more lucritive field now. But having a critical/scientific mind helps me to this day. This guy freshwater is scum - why hasn't the DA been called? - this is abuse!
Frank J · 7 November 2008
To jasonmitchell: Can you see me turning green yet? ;-)
To all: Now how do I put this without being misunderstood? The irony is that, for me at least, it would have been better if I had a teacher like Freshwater instead of the watered-down instruction I did receive. I would have noticed then that "something doesn't smell right," and my fascination with evolution would have began decades earlier.
Some of you may ask how I know that I would have reacted that way instead of just blindly following along with the feel-good sound bites? Well, in 7th grade (1966-7) I was still in Catholic school being taught Genesis literally (and old-earth version), and even then "something didn't smell right." So I "found" evolution, and it just made more sense. But with the exception of having to read "Inherit the Wind" (public school, 8th grade English I think) I heard few arguments against evolution, so I just lost interest.
RBH · 7 November 2008
Apropos of good science teaching, the Guardian has an interesting video story on several innovative ways of teaching evolution in Great Britain.
David · 8 November 2008
RBH · 9 November 2008
Frank J · 9 November 2008
OT, but court-related:
Isn't Christine Comer's lawsuit supposed to go to court this month? I thought I read that a few months ago, but could not find anything recent that mentions a date.