Julia Sweeney: Expelled and Ben Stein

Posted 28 March 2008 by PvM

Julia Sweeney watched all the trailers for "Expelled" and was not impressed

Last night Michael and I watched all the trailers for “Expelled,” the anti-evolution, intelligent design movie that Ben Stein made, or appears to have made, that’s opening in movie theaters on April 18th. I am just speechless.

Ben Stein once did a Groundling show, an improv show, that I was a part of. I found him to be spectacularly ill-informed and narcissistic and weirdly devoted to his schtick and worst of all, hacky. He didn’t listen to his fellow performers and played everything outward to his friends in the audience who laughed (fake, forced) at every single thing he did. When he became known as a “thinker” – when his public persona became the “smart guy” I was astounded. So this type of film does not come as any surprise.

Seems they found a perfect character for 'Expelled'

31 Comments

fnxtr · 28 March 2008

Seems they found a perfect character for ‘Expelled’

Nah, they should have used the "we look for things to make us go" moron aliens from ST:TNG. I will now adjust the Band-aid on my glasses.

Walabio · 28 March 2008

fnxtr said:

> Nah, they should have used the “we look for things to make us go” moron aliens from ST:TNG.

> I will now adjust the Band-aid on my glasses.

¡Comparing creationists to Pakleds is an insult to Pakleds everywhere! ;-)

Timothy Sandefur · 28 March 2008

Just thought I should mention that I TOTALLY LOVE JULIA SWEENEY. Thank you. That is all.

FtK · 28 March 2008

"Julia Sweeney watched all the trailers for “Expelled” and was not impressed."

LOL....what did you expect? Of course she hated it. D'oh.

Phatty · 28 March 2008

When he became known as a “thinker” – when his public persona became the “smart guy” I was astounded.

When Julia Sweeney graduates as the valedictorian of her class from Yale Law School (which Ben did) I will accept her critique of Ben's mental prowess. Whether you agree or disagree with Ben's views on creationism, it is ridiculous to assume that his persona as a "smart guy" is simply some sort of public act. He is much more academically accomplished than Julia Sweeney.

John Kwok · 28 March 2008

I've been comparing creationists to Borgs and Daleks for months now. Apt comparisons since creationists are truly memb ers of "group mind" collectives. I'm not sure what Stein is, but he strikes me as a willing recruit for the Discovery Institute IDiot Borg Collective.

Science Nut · 28 March 2008

"Whether you agree or disagree with Ben’s views on creationism, it is ridiculous to assume that his persona as a “smart guy” is simply some sort of public act. He is much more academically accomplished than Julia Sweeney."

Ones academic credentials are, well, just academic. It is what one does in life that shows the true measure of value. By that measure, it seems that Ben has failed and Julia remains streets ahead.

Frank J · 28 March 2008

LOL….what did you expect? Of course she hated it. D’oh.
— FtK

What's my excuse? I believe in God, am probably to the right of Ben Stein on key political issues, and regularly defend Christians like Kenneth Miller and Pope John Paul II. Oh wait, it must be that Commandment not to bear false witness.

Interrobang · 28 March 2008

When Julia Sweeney graduates as the valedictorian of her class from Yale Law School (which Ben did) I will accept her critique of Ben’s mental prowess.

When everything that comes out of Ben Stein's mouth stops being vapid drivel, I'll start believing graduating valedictorian from Yale Law means something in Ben Stein's case.

mplavcan · 28 March 2008

So Phatty, you are saying that the validity of one's comments is determined by the rank at graduation, or perhaps the accolades? I see. So, then, you agree that James Watson's comments on race are correct, because of what he did in the past? My guess is that my credentials are better than yours. Therefore if I say 2+2=5, it is right? Does my citation rate within my discipline make my personal political views correct? [Interesting aside: does the correctness of my opinions and views only apply to those with lower credentials?] Do you think about these things before you write them down?

Robert O'Brien · 29 March 2008

Science Nut: "Whether you agree or disagree with Ben’s views on creationism, it is ridiculous to assume that his persona as a “smart guy” is simply some sort of public act. He is much more academically accomplished than Julia Sweeney." Ones academic credentials are, well, just academic. It is what one does in life that shows the true measure of value. By that measure, it seems that Ben has failed and Julia remains streets ahead.

Not in this reality. Julia Sweeney's biggest claim to fame was playing an ambiguously-gendered character on SNL and a bomb of a movie. Ben Stein is certainly more accomplished.

Robert O'Brien · 29 March 2008

Timothy Sandefur: Just thought I should mention that I TOTALLY LOVE JULIA SWEENEY. Thank you. That is all.

Who cares?

PvM · 29 March 2008

Robert O'Brien:
Timothy Sandefur: Just thought I should mention that I TOTALLY LOVE JULIA SWEENEY. Thank you. That is all.
Who cares?

Seems you do.

PvM · 29 March 2008

Not in this reality. Julia Sweeney’s biggest claim to fame was playing an ambiguously-gendered character on SNL and a bomb of a movie. Ben Stein is certainly more accomplished.

Too bad he is all throwing it away for an ill informed movie

Robert O'Brien · 29 March 2008

PvM:
Not in this reality. Julia Sweeney’s biggest claim to fame was playing an ambiguously-gendered character on SNL and a bomb of a movie. Ben Stein is certainly more accomplished.
Too bad he is all throwing it away for an ill informed movie

That is certainly possible. (I can't comment on the movie, since I've not seen it.)

Ron Okimoto · 29 March 2008

John Kwok: I've been comparing creationists to Borgs and Daleks for months now. Apt comparisons since creationists are truly memb ers of "group mind" collectives. I'm not sure what Stein is, but he strikes me as a willing recruit for the Discovery Institute IDiot Borg Collective.

The IDiot perps like Johnson, Meyer and Dembski et al along with wannabes like Stein aren't the Borg. They would probably claim that they were more like the Queen borg manipulating the worker ants. Morals are for the other guys that need them and sometimes you have to run dishonest scams on your own supporters in order to do what has to be done. About the closest Star Trek aliens to the ID perps would be the Ferengi. They seem to have about as much regard for others as the Ferengi have, just less of a moral code than the Ferengi.

Nigel D · 29 March 2008

Phatty: When Julia Sweeney graduates as the valedictorian of her class from Yale Law School (which Ben did) I will accept her critique of Ben's mental prowess. ... He is much more academically accomplished than Julia Sweeney.

No. Law is not academia, especially in the USA. Lawyers learn how to make other people believe in their own version of events. Some lawyers (such as those who are part of the IDC crowd) seem to have started to believe that they can persuade reality to be what they say it is. Fortunately for us, this is not the case. I only hope that one day, Ben Stein will realise that, irrespective of what he says about it, reality is what it is.

John Kwok · 29 March 2008

Ron,

For treacherous and deceitful, maybe a better analogy would be comparing the DI leadership to the Romulan Praetor and his Imperial Senate. But since their sycophants are "mindless drones", then the Borg analogy is more apt.

Cheers,

John

Nigel D · 30 March 2008

All will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

John Kwok · 30 March 2008

Hi Nigel,

Yes, that's exactly what the Disco Tute is hoping for via its "Wedge Document". If we follow the "Wedge Document", then "Resistance is futile".

Incidentally, my "pal" Bill D. believes I am "childish" for accepting Klingon Cosmology. The question ought to be "Who is the childish one? Yours truly or that Disco Tute mendacious intellectual pornographer.

Cheers,

John

Tukla in Iowa · 30 March 2008

Julia Sweeney’s biggest claim to fame...

Ben Stein's biggest claim to fame is riding Matthew Broderick's coattails. Whoopee.

Henry J · 30 March 2008

Ben Stein’s biggest claim to fame is riding Matthew Broderick’s coattails. Whoopee.

The guy that did in Goddidit? Er, I mean, Godzilla? Henry

gwangung · 31 March 2008

Julia Sweeney’s biggest claim to fame was playing an ambiguously-gendered character on SNL and a bomb of a movie. Ben Stein is certainly more accomplished.

This is a tremendously ignorant comment, lacking knowledge of Ms. Sweeney's long, long list of credits in TV, movies and stage (for example there's her career as a screenwriter and her many one-woman shows, which have had long runs in New York and across the country). She can be said to be quite successful, both economically and artistically. Then again, ignorance is nothing new for creationists (and why there's a Robert O'Brien award for idiocy).

Stanton · 31 March 2008

Nigel D: All will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

No, no, no, Nigel, you have it all wrong: It's "Intelligence is futile."

Phatty · 31 March 2008

Ones academic credentials are, well, just academic. It is what one does in life that shows the true measure of value.

I didn't state that one's academic credentials show the true measure of value (whatever that means).

When everything that comes out of Ben Stein’s mouth stops being vapid drivel, I’ll start believing graduating valedictorian from Yale Law means something in Ben Stein’s case.

It seems you misinterpreted my comment as saying Ben Stein's academic record gives greater validity to his comments. Read it again.

So Phatty, you are saying that the validity of one’s comments is determined by the rank at graduation, or perhaps the accolades?

Um no, I didn't say that. Did you even read my comment?

No. Law is not academia, especially in the USA.

Great. Thanks for your opinion on the legal profession. I would have expected a little better reading comprehension from the readers here. My point, which I thought clear, was that Ben Stein's "smart guy" persona was not just some made-up actor shtick, which Julia seemed to claim. Despite Nigel's opinions on legal academia, most people would consider the valedictorian of Yale Law School to be "smart." I didn't even mention his undergrad degree in economics from Columbia College with honors, his stint as a law professor, his authoring of numerous published books and articles, and his speechwriting for Presidents Nixon and Ford. I don't even like the guy, but I'm not going to argue that he hasn't earned the public persona of a "smart guy" just because I disagree with his viewpoints.

T. Bruce McNeely · 31 March 2008

Quote: When Julia Sweeney graduates as the valedictorian of her class from Yale Law School (which Ben did) I will accept her critique of Ben’s mental prowess.

Phatty, you appear to be saying that Ms. Sweeney has no right to comment on Mr. Stein's mental prowess, because she is not as "accomplished" as Mr. Stein.

Quote: So Phatty, you are saying that the validity of one’s comments is determined by the rank at graduation, or perhaps the accolades?

Quote: Um no, I didn’t say that. Did you even read my comment?

Yes, I did, and it appears to me that you did say that.

Nigel D · 31 March 2008

Despite Nigel’s opinions on legal academia, most people would consider the valedictorian of Yale Law School to be “smart.”
— Phatty

Way to take my words out of context, scuzzpuck. Lawyers are almost all extremely clever people. But this is entirely irrelevant when the topic at hand is the assertion that science has unfairly excluded ID as a concept. What I was pointing out (and seems to be beyond your reading comprehension) is this: Science operates under a different set of parameters from law. In the practice of law, what matters is persuading a judge or a jury that your argument is correct, and that your opponent's is wrong. There is no motivation to uncover the truth of anything. In science, every proposition is tested against reality. Propositions that do not withstand a test against reality are rejected, while those that concur with reality are kept and investigated further. Thus, science gets us closer to finding out how stuff works than any other method of inquiry. The claims of the IDists do not withstand comparison to reality. Indeed, figures such as Dembski, Johnson and Wells show an astonishing level of ignorance of the science that they attempt to criticise. All of the major ID players have, at one point or another, misrepresented the science in order to attack it. Having failed to have their stealth creationism accepted by the science community (well, duh), and having had it rejected by a court of law as "not science", they are now claiming that there is a conspiracy to keep ID out of scientific discourse. This is simply a lie. ID had its opportunity. It failed. As it deserved to.

Robert O'Brien · 31 March 2008

gwangung:
Julia Sweeney’s biggest claim to fame was playing an ambiguously-gendered character on SNL and a bomb of a movie. Ben Stein is certainly more accomplished.
This is a tremendously ignorant comment, lacking knowledge of Ms. Sweeney's long, long list of credits in TV, movies and stage (for example there's her career as a screenwriter and her many one-woman shows, which have had long runs in New York and across the country).

That and a dime would not get you a gumball from a gumball machine, your obsequious fawning notwithstanding. Were it not for her stint on SNL, Julia Sweeney would have remained unknown.

Robert O'Brien · 31 March 2008

Tukla in Iowa:
Julia Sweeney’s biggest claim to fame...
Ben Stein's biggest claim to fame is riding Matthew Broderick's coattails. Whoopee.

I do not see it that way, corn-pone.

T. Bruce McNeely · 31 March 2008

For Robert "Award Winner" O'Brien's information, the difference between Julia Sweeney and Ben Stein is the following: When Ms. Sweeney became curious about evolution, she read up on it, including Darwin's "On the Origin of Species". When Stein decided to deal with evolution, he obviously did jack shit.
"More accomplished"? Who cares?

Bill Gascoyne · 1 April 2008

In the practice of law, what matters is persuading a judge or a jury that your argument is correct, and that your opponent’s is wrong. There is no motivation to uncover the truth of anything.

"The theory of legal procedure is that if you set two liars to expose one another, the truth will emerge."
George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)