Yet Another Creationist Meltdown

We seem to be making headway in the move to prevent deterioration of both science curriculum and the movement to achieve responsible sexual behavior in our schools. Let us hope that the perpetrators of misguided information find their place--and the place of their councils--outside the walls of our educational facilities.

I guess honesty and rules can be set aside when doing God's work.

This policy essentially paved the way for creationism by redefining science from something that must continually be tested rigorously to a mere collection of supposedly equally valid "interpretations" of the available data. Real science, of course, has a history littered with the corpses of thousands of discarded "interpretations."

— Dave Thomas

These people are disgusting. We can be thankful that scientists do not engage in fraud, faking resulsts, tax evasion, espionage, or homo sexual behavior!

— Whatever

These people are disgusting. We can be thankful that scientists do not engage in fraud, faking resulsts, tax evasion, espionage, or homo sexual behavior!

— Whatever

Whatever--
In a study of a university chemistry department I did in the sociology of science, I found that scientists had to be much more concerned with factual accuracy than other people. Researchers in any particular area knew who else was working in their field. If even the suspicion got around that a researcher was faking results--(usually expressed as, 'people have been having a lot of trouble replicating his work,')-- the lab's funding dried up, the scientist's citation record dried up, and his career in active research was pretty much over.
That doesn't mean that scientists are intrinsically more moral than other people. But the nature of their field does force them to be very careful about what statements they are willing to stand behind as scientific fact. The very few cases of outright scientific fraud reported in the press compared to the deluge of malfeasance and misinformation coming from the creationist camp probably reflects a real difference.

At least scientists, even when misbehaving, aren't trying to pretend that they're better than everyone else.

That doesn't mean that scientists are intrinsically more moral than other people. But the nature of their field does force them to be very careful about what statements they are willing to stand behind as scientific fact.

— Hoary Puccoon

And when scientists make stuff up, it's almost always other scientists that find them out and blow the whistle.

— Nigel D

Clearly, you've never "Rocks Of Ages" by Stephen J. Gould. In fact, when he visited Kansas University many years ago for a lecture, even the biology prof who taught our introductory evolution class labeled him as "kinda arrogant."

— FL

The recent furore over the Bulgarian healthcare workers sentenced to death for "infecting" over 400 children with HIV did turn up an interesting statistic. It appears that as much as 40% of HIV transmission in Africa is not due to sexual contact but to a lack of universal precautions and practices such as re-using needles and IV equipment and a lack of screening of blood for transfusion.
While much of this Administration's focus has been on abstinence education, simple public health education may have been more efficacious since abstinence education for people in the twenties and thirties is controversial at best.
Of course, you then have several national leaders who have embraced HIV denialism, making a dismal picture even more dismal.

These people are disgusting. We can be thankful that scientists do not engage in fraud, faking resulsts, tax evasion, espionage, or homo sexual behavior!

It is truly amazing how clueless

These people are disgusting. We can be thankful that scientists do not engage in fraud, faking resulsts, tax evasion, espionage, or homo sexual behavior!

Pat Robertson: wikipedia Hugo Chávez" I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war, and I don't think any oil shipments will stop. We will find you, we will try you, and we will execute you. I mean every word of it. [Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue, at the Aug 8, 1995 U.S. Taxpayers Alliance Banquet in Washington DC, talking about doctors who perform abortions and volunteer escorts My note. Terry's sympathizers have, in fact, murdered more than a few health care workers. "Pastor Jerry Gibson spoke at Doug Whites New Day Covenant Church in Boulder. He said that every true Christian should be ready and willing to take up arms to kill the enemies of Christian society. bcseweb.org Rushdooney: Our list may not be perfect but it seems to cover those "crimes" against the family that are inferred by Rushdoony's statement to Moyers. The real frightening side of it is the interpretation of heresy, apostasy and idolatry. Rushdoony's position seems to suggest that he would have anyone killed who disagreed with his religious opinions. That represents all but a tiny minority of people. Add to that death penalties for what is quite legal, blasphemy, not getting on with parents and working on a Sunday means that it the fantasy ideal world of Rushdoony and his pals, there will be an awful lot of mass murderers and amongst a tiny population. We have done figures for the UK which suggest that around 99% of the population would end up dead and the remainder would have each, on average, killed 500 fellow citizens. Chalcedon foundation bsceweb.org. Stoning disobedient children to death.Contempt for Parental Authority: Those who consider death as a horrible punishment here must realise that in such a case as ....cut for length Rev. William Einwechter, "Modern Issues in Biblical Perspective: Stoning Disobedient Children", The Chalcedon Report, January 1999 When The Hate Comes From 'Churches' ASHLAND, Ore. - A recent spate of crimes points up a growing connection between hateful actions and organizations calling themselves churches. Two brothers from northern California reportedly linked to such a group were charged this week with the killing of two gay men near Redding. Benjamin Matthew Williams and James Tyler Williams also are suspects in the firebombing of three synagogues in the Sacramento area last month. According to personal acquaintances as well as law enforcement officials, the Williams brothers were involved in Christian Identity, a religion that holds Jews and nonwhites to be subhuman and is closely tied to the Aryan Nations white-supremacist group based in northern Idaho. Meanwhile, officials are investigating the links between Benjamin Smith and the World Church of the Creator. Over Independence Day weekend in Illinois and Indiana, Smith shot Asians, Jews, and an African-American (killing two and injuring nine) before killing himself.

Mr. Thomas,

You are not completely without outside interests yourself. You toot yourself as a journalist and yet you are also President of New Mexicans for Science and Reason. It sounds like you are not without bias in your work.

In any event, I would hope to direct you to a new theory of evolution written about on my webpage at http://www.homestead.com/theosophy/ascension.html

In this theory, which I have tried to publicize for 12 years, I explain about a new concept for which as of yet there is no word. I chose a word: girasas so that I could speak about another evolutionary kingdom, higher than the human. I also reference two modern organizations that exhibit well-meaning, though incomplete, presentations of life experience by individuals who tried to produce a product worthy of their brothers and sisters.

While I doubt I would agree with Kevin Jackson and his wife, I would like to position myself as an example of the way the news media treats newcomers with change in mind. Can you tell me why in these past 12 years no one has bothered to print my story?

Brenda Tucker

In response to 190454... no they can't really be set aside... but quite unfortunately SO many Christians do. The problem is, its not a simple debate about facts. Its a war, with lawlessness, murder... whatever on one side and truth, justice, America, apple pie and whatever on the other.

The goal of ID, creationism and what not is not to really argue that the world really is designed, or that its so old, or whatever. Its trying to fight a culture that they view as somewhere between "wrong" and "Satanic".

Look at what ID advocates do. If you actually wanted to argue ID, its a stupid way of doing it. No research, no papers, no... nothing. But if all you want to do is:

1. Reinforce the viewpoints of people who already believe.
2. Try to sow enough doubt in the minds of those who have not studied the issue.

Its great. It all depends on the idea that as long as people doubt evolution enough, they will go to the much "cheerier" alternative, ID.

(At least, its "cheerier" until you really start to think too much about it).

Can you tell me why in these past 12 years no one has bothered to print my story?

It is a very difficult idea to adhere to. After I first conceived of the thought, it took my a full year to recover enough to plan out the steps I should take to expose this idea.

You see, when I joined The Theosophical Society and begin my study of yoga and spiritual life, I knew by the three objects of the Society, that science, religion, and philosophy would be studied comparatively, and that each field had something to offer. I was invited to test out to the fullness of my heart what I was reading, which I intended to do.

I had been fascinated with the material I was reading in this organization and in The Saint Germain Foundation, which has such political leanings that we recite The Pledge of Allegiance in church and sing The Star Spangled Banner regularly. The tapes and books were exciting to me and filled with new things.

It wasn't until the idea ripened and exploded that I began to see that I was not becoming an advanced being like I had wanted to become. Instead, I was still a human that had been "quieted" into passiveness by the presence of a girasas. Well, I never actually was able to make a conscious decision for myself as to whether or not I wished to play host(ess) to this being from a higher kingdom. The most anyone would tell me is test.

Well now I've tested and I have information that will allow everyone else in this country to decide for themselves what it is they want to do and what is best for them and I don't have any assistance in sharing this idea.

What can you do besides gib me?

Hey Dave, be sure to add a link to pseudoscience websites for Brenda. Brenda's web site is at least as interesting as Time Cube.

It's not the website that brings up bad allusions. It's this constant insistence that everyone citizen in the U.S. is deserving of the phrase. It's the supposition that you are equal to this great government of ours and that you can function routinely within the structure of our country's freedoms because you were born here.

Well, it seems to me, the people of America fall short of what our founding fathers produced for us.

I'm studying the Bible in a Christian church now and the whole dichotomy of law vs. love is really worth the time spent. Why did the law fail? Was was law replaced? Possibly because it couldn't change in a way that allowed growth in people. So then without a firm basis in the law, what were we left with? Love. Love became the highest rule. But that is confusing to many people because love is incidental. Some have it and some don't. How do we grow ours? How can we accept the love that is given to us?

I'm thinking that love is due to be replaced by a concept stronger than it is some day as well. The concept of the girasas is one of many things, many things too advanced for easy acceptance, let alone understanding. If we ever were to come to accept them, I don't think it would be on the basis of love. I think it would be out of dire necessity; the problems in the world are too great for humans to attempt to solve them alone. Out of need, we turn to them to fulfill our basic needs.

Is this some evil plot to force us into subservience? Nope. It is the turning of a great wheel of manifestation, a wheel of life, that allows us first to impact a lower kingdom with our ways and constitution and then for a higher kingdom to impact us; a set of natural circumstances that when known about, is so much easier to plan for, then if it remains a mystery.

In the interest of fairness, if ID is to be taught alongside the ToE, I demand that the Concept of Girasas (C.O.G.) be given equal time in science classrooms.

You toot yourself as a journalist and yet you are also President of New Mexicans for Science and Reason.

Ah, a devious agenda if ever there was one.

In the interest of fairness, if ID is to be taught alongside the ToE, I demand that the Concept of Girasas (C.O.G.) be given equal time in science classrooms.

Brenda, when you talk about Girasas, are you sure you don't mean Giygas?

That would explain a lot. Plus, it would greatly help your efforts to popularize your ideas if you could leverage the existing cult that has grown up around Earthbound.

Also, have you been recently contacted by any psychokinetic bees from ten years in the future?

Also, have you been recently contacted by any psychokinetic bees from ten years in the future?

— Coin

Hey Dave, be sure to add a link to pseudoscience websites for Brenda. Brenda's web site is at least as interesting as Time Cube.

— J. Biggs

I would like to position myself as an example of the way the news media treats newcomers with change in mind. Can you tell me why in these past 12 years no one has bothered to print my story?

— Brenda Tucker

I am a housewife with a bachelor's degree in psychology. I do hope that there are experts who can develop and advance this amazing concept of life on earth, but I do not know how to reach them.

— Brenda Tucker

You toot yourself as a journalist and yet you are also President of New Mexicans for Science and Reason. It sounds like you are not without bias in your work.

— Brenda Tucker

Today's byline Dave Thomas, a physicist and mathematician, is president of New Mexicans for Science and Reason. He is co-host of the group's "Science Watch," which airs Saturdays at 2 p.m. on KABQ-AM (1350).

Sure you can refuse to understand my webpage based on the probable fact that you didn't read THE SECRET DOCTRINE. H.P. Blavatsky's premise is that humans have been on earth for 300 million years, just not physically. Therfore, the comment in regards to flowering and fruit-bearing plants regards the need for the humans to first seed the earth with their food sources so that the bodies that we create out of whatever animals are using at the time can find sustenance.

300 million years ago was the 1st race. The time line is difficult for me to produce but it is all in THE SECRET DOCTRINE. Maybe you could go there for more information. The 5th race overlapped the fourth race for a time as did the early races also overlap. You would find comments in THE SD regarding no fourth race humans on earth at this time. Fourth race went extince and third race - while separated from animals or occupied with the split - would have also gone extince. The SD says that race was a giant race and may have existed at the beginnings of the fifth race due to so much overlap. H.P.B. says that some of the bones found and thought to be mastodon are actually 3rd race human bones. Don't know how anyone with scientific resources might be able to prove or disprove that.

All I'm suggesting is that the country is not only ignorant of theosophy, but prefers ignorance.

Dave Thomas wrote: A good suggestion! I will submit it to the International Evolutionist Cabal right away.

Brenda wrote: All I'm suggesting is that the country is not only ignorant of theosophy, but prefers ignorance.

[That Mastodon's are extant humans:] Don't know how anyone with scientific resources might be able to prove or disprove that.

Mind you, not all Mastodon bones. A few. Do you know that their teeth are incredibly like human? Maybe it was the molars.

Also, try to separate what I have to say from what Blavatsky has to say.

Here is one of my concerns that should be yours too: While there are no living races other than the fifth race, the fifth race is divided into subraces so that at anyone one time on earth, typically all seven subraces exist as representatives of the races. It might be very tricky presenting data regarding races (and nationalities) on earth. We could make the blanket statement that everyone in the Americas (North and South) are destined to become the future sixth race and that we are currently just finding our beginnings in the 6th subrace. Meanwhile, we have to put the other subraces somewhere and I would conjecture that it would be 1st - Egypt, 2nd - India, 3rd - Greece, 4th - Asian, and 5th - European.

Thank what happens during the 7th race - a split where the girasas separate bodily from the human, which will be near extinction (I suggest in 16 million years, 10 for the 6th subrace and 6 million for the 7th subrace.) As the race splits, we are left with some kind of form that not only has competition in our environment with higher lives, but has supposedly a body that is far superior to that which we would choose for ourselves. It becomes a violent, explosive experience prior to departure from the earth on our way to another round into animals in order to work our own body and environment out of theirs again and again.

What I see happening in Middle East or Africa is the 5th race 7th subrace (Jewish) competing with the 6th race 7th subrace (Muslim). The Secret Doctrine claims that the Jewish subrace is born alongside the other subraces during the early beginnings of the race so that the 7th subrace (in a peculiar family race status) watches over the developments of the other subraces the entire racial period of existence. Then when the 7th finishes their job of guiding towards the goal (hint, hint 7th is the goal and it is clearly in sight), the new race is born (1st & 2nd subraces and 7th subrace) all together ready to undertake the years ahead of it.

Can you tell me why in these past 12 years no one has bothered to print my story?

— Brenda Tucker

Ok, so you're just utterly insane then.

You are either an incredibly gifted satirist or utterly insane. I haven't figured it out yet.

— J. Biggs

Can we get a show of hands for who would like to see Mr. Thomas toot himself?

Can I get a second?

Lorri wrote: Can we get a show of hands for who would like to see Mr. Thomas toot himself?

Clearly, you've never "Rocks Of Ages" by Stephen J. Gould. In fact, when he visited Kansas University many years ago for a lecture, even the biology prof who taught our introductory evolution class labeled him as "kinda arrogant."

— FL

What I see happening in Middle East or Africa is the 5th race 7th subrace (Jewish) competing with the 6th race 7th subrace (Muslim). The Secret Doctrine claims that the Jewish subrace is born alongside the other subraces during the early beginnings of the race so that the 7th subrace (in a peculiar family race status) watches over the developments of the other subraces the entire racial period of existence. Then when the 7th finishes their job of guiding towards the goal (hint, hint 7th is the goal and it is clearly in sight), the new race is born (1st & 2nd subraces and 7th subrace) all together ready to undertake the years ahead of it.

Thank what happens during the 7th race - a split where the girasas separate bodily from the human, which will be near extinction (I suggest in 16 million years, 10 for the 6th subrace and 6 million for the 7th subrace.) As the race splits..."

— Brenda Tucker:

So now because my ideas are new and different, someone finds it in their heart to tell me to go somewhere else. That I'm not wanted at this discussion. Why don't they go somewhere else instead? Is it a question of ownership? Someone owns this and doesn't permit everyone to use it.

My ideas are pretty disturbing. The N.Y. Times forum moderator (or one of their journalists, I can't remember) called this idea "screamology." Maybe you want to scream. Maybe it doesn't fit into your life. Maybe no good could come out of it, but what I want to happen is that I want this idea to end the debate.

No more debate. Why? Because they are both right. In the past, the human existed in animal form (but not entirely due and not due to natural selection did the form change). The form changed because the human finished their work with the animal and "ascended" the animal off the earth, sending it on its way. Now what we have on earth are not evolving animals. They are our "virtual world," a different kind of life that doesn't evolve like the other kingdoms, but progresses on a reverse spiral to the evolving one.

I have introduced you to new life: girasas and our world composed of angelic-types of life. I can explain evil, virgin birth, forgiveness, death on the cross, the sacrament, and more in a new way but somehow my work and what I have done isn't enough to make a dent in how or why you do things they way you do. You do what you do because you don't have a choice. I would like to think I have a choice, but without information regarding my choices, who can choose?

Fine. Scientists will continue to study the past and make predictions about the future based on their findings, but what they won't consider is that the past is vastly different than what is in store for us in the future and it is due to brave men like Jesus Christ that we have information presented to us, which presentation of truth, cost him his life.

Religious minded people will continue to struggle with a higher kingdom without the support of scientists who we wish to engage in the study of the current situation and not the past. If scientists could help explain what is happening to us and why, they would be more valuable and we could work jointly on the same projects.

However, people will continue to banish me as they have for 12 years because they don't like to think they are last to know about something so important. Why weren't you the first one to know?

Brenda,

You have a messianic complex. Seek treatment. In all seriousness, you need psychological help.

The ideas you've put forward are NOT new. This kind of stuff has been around for centuries. You're not leading anything other than a charge into the superstitious past.

Scientists don't just study the past; you clearly haven't the first clue as to what science is or how it works. This isn't a sign of enlightenment, but ignorance --- unabashed and simple, nothing more and nothing less.

I notice from your website that you have children. For their sake if not for your own, put down the Blavatsky Theosophical nonsense and get help.

Whatever wrote: No raven (190558), [scientists] are just working to fill the world with more and more deadly weapons of mass destruction, providing them to the governments with the means to pays for them.

If you put guns in the hands of waring gangs, you are complicit.

True, fundies may talk about the end of the world, but scientists have made it possible.

True, fundies may talk about the end of the world, but scientists have made it possible.

No raven (190558), they are just working to fill the world with more and more deadly weapons of mass destruction, providing them to the governments with the means to pays for them. If you put guns in the hands of waring gangs, you are complicit. True, fundies may talk about the end of the world, but scientists have made it possible.

It is a very difficult idea to adhere to.

After I first conceived of the thought, it took my a full year to recover

It wasn't until the idea ripened and exploded

Brenda,

Re "Can you tell me why in these past 12 years no one has bothered to print my story?"

Maybe if you cut down on the word salad? Or at least find a new recipe for it?

Henry

Brenda Tucker--
You know, there is an organization that might be interested in your theories. It's called the Discovery Institute (isn't that a wonderful name?) and it's in Seattle, Washington. One of its scientists, Paul Nelson, has just put out a book, Exploring Evolution, that 'teaches the controversy.' It shows that modern evolutionary theory is just one theory among many. I'm sure that your theory is every bit as good as his, too! Some of the other people involved are William Dembski and Dave Scott (or possibly Springer.) They are all devout, upstanding Christian men.
So, why don't you contact the Discovery Institute? You sound like you're their kind of people. And please be sure to mention you were steered their way by a blogster on Panda's Thumb.
All the best, Hoary Puccoon

Brenda:

You need to write out your theory in a book or pamphlet form. Just staple it together if you can't afford book binding.

Start with an introduction and the basics. What is a girasas? What is numerology? What is this higher kingdom of beings?

Title it a Theory of Evolution. Send it to state school systems in Kansas, Texas, New Mexico, Florida, etc. Your theory would be controversial and there are many people there who think controversial theories should be taught to young children in science classes.

Yours would fit in right along with The Flying Spaghetti Monster and Dinosaurs on the Big Boat. Good luck to you.

I guess I'm clearly guilty of "tooting myself as a journalist." Floggings all 'round! Dave

Brenda wrote: So now because my ideas are new and different, someone finds it in their heart to tell me to go somewhere else.

Sure you can refuse to understand my webpage based on the probable fact that you didn't read THE SECRET DOCTRINE. H.P. Blavatsky's premise is that humans have been on earth for 300 million years, just not physically.

— Brenda Tucker

Brenda wrote: So now because my ideas are new and different, someone finds it in their heart to tell me to go somewhere else. That I'm not wanted at this discussion. Why don't they go somewhere else instead? Is it a question of ownership? Someone owns this and doesn't permit everyone to use it.

All I'm suggesting is that the country is not only ignorant of theosophy, but prefers ignorance.

Legion wrote: Say there are three or four waring factins contending for control of the innder city. They fit with knives and bottles. However, you supply all sides with automatic weapons. Them death rate quadruples over nite. Feel better?

Comment #190558 Posted by raven on July 27, 2007 1:02 PM (e) At least scientists aren't drawing up lists of people to kill, occasionally killing them, and trying to overthrow the US government and recreate the dark ages.

Blavatsky reports that the earth is a globe in a series of seven globes comprising a chain. The earth chain contains seven kingdoms of nature. We know them as mineral, plant, animal, human. Three other kingdoms are said to be invisible and they are listed as 1st, 2nd, and 3rd elemental kingdoms. They are more commonly known as thought elementals, feeling elementals or feelings, and etheric elementals or the states of matter which are invisible except to kirlian photography as light. Each kingdom exists as "king" upon a globe. So that while the animal kingdom - which later overlaps with the human - inhabit the earth during their fourth root race, they are here with no interference from other evolving lives. The plants exist on the globe ahead of the animals and humans exist on the globe behind the animals. The entire chain consists of seven rounds of seven globes, which would mean 49 separate descent-ascent globe learning periods before animal progresses to human, plant progresses to animal, and so forth.

Sure you can refuse to understand my webpage based on the probable fact that you didn't read THE SECRET DOCTRINE.

— Brenda Tucker

H.P. Blavatsky's premise is that humans have been on earth for 300 million years, just not physically.

Therfore, the comment in regards to flowering and fruit-bearing plants regards the need for the humans to first seed the earth with their food sources so that the bodies that we create out of whatever animals are using at the time can find sustenance.

300 million years ago was the 1st race.

The time line is difficult for me to produce but it is all in THE SECRET DOCTRINE.

Maybe you could go there for more information.

The 5th race overlapped the fourth race for a time as did the early races also overlap.

You would find comments in THE SD regarding no fourth race humans on earth at this time. Fourth race went extince and third race - while separated from animals or occupied with the split - would have also gone extince.

The SD says that race was a giant race and may have existed at the beginnings of the fifth race due to so much overlap. H.P.B. says that some of the bones found and thought to be mastodon are actually 3rd race human bones.

Don't know how anyone with scientific resources might be able to prove or disprove that.

All I'm suggesting is that the country is not only ignorant of theosophy, but prefers ignorance.

Maybe with a good education the "waring factins" (idiot) in your ridiculous scenario would have something better to do than "fit" (idiot) each other for control of the "innder city" (idiot). Perhaps with a good education you wouldn't have ended up as such an illiterate a-hole that doesn't even know how to use spell check.

— J. Biggs

Nigel,

Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

Nice one Stanton. Reminds me of a friend's observation that no one dies from falling. They die from massive deceleration.

Based on what? Blavatsky again? Does he support his claims with any actual evidence?

At least scientists, even when misbehaving, aren't trying to pretend that they're better than everyone else.

Clearly, you've never "Rocks Of Ages" by Stephen J. Gould. In fact, when he visited Kansas University many years ago for a lecture, even the biology prof who taught our introductory evolution class labeled him as "kinda arrogant."

THEOSOPHY, n. An ancient faith having all the certitude of religion and all the mystery of science. The modern Theosophist holds, with the Buddhists, that we live an incalculable number of times on this earth, in as many several bodies, because one life is not long enough for our complete spiritual development; that is, a single lifetime does not suffice for us to become as wise and good as we choose to wish to become. To be absolutely wise and good --- that is perfection; and the Theosophist is so keen-sighted as to have observed that everything desirous of improvement eventually attains perfection. Less competent observers are disposed to except cats, which seem neither wiser nor better than they were last year. The greatest and fattest of recent Theosophists was the late Madame Blavatsky, who had no cat.

ZEUS, n. The chief of Grecian gods, adored by the Romans as Jupiter and by the modern Americans as God, Gold, Mob and Dog. Some explorers who have touched upon the shores of America, and one who professes to have penetrated a considerable distance to the interior, have thought that these four names stand for as many distinct deities, but in his monumental work on Surviving Faiths, Frumpp insists that the natives are monotheists, each having no other god than himself, whom he worships under many sacred names.

Father Wolf, thanks for the correction. I guess I deserved that, making a groundless and unwarrented assumption that Blavatsky was a man.

Baseless assertions and spiritual-sounding mumbo-jumbo are not, of course, the exclusive preserve of males.

It seems to me that no matter how much the young Earth creationists are discredited, millions of Americans still seem to buy into it. Just look at the number of people who have been to Ham's so-called museum over the last couple of months....over 100,000 now.

Some of the mainstream scientists who have visited the museum and written reviews have stated that they hope repeat visits will be very low and that maybe, in a year or so's time, attendances will fall off. I wouldn't be so sure, and in my opinion, this is just wishful thinking.

Surely this indicates there is something seriously wrong with US science education ? As I have said before, forget ID. It's YECism that US science educators should be worried about. The opinion polls state that over 45% in the US don't accept evolutionary science. These figures would appear to be correct,unfortunately.

One minor YEC who has made an ass of himself will not make a blind bit of difference.

Brenda claimed that she has been trying for 12 years. That puts her attempts beginning around the time that Stargate SG-1 was begun as a tv series. Does that seem like too much of a coincidence? Of course not.

Posted by Peter Henderson on July 29, 2007 6:45 AM (e) It seems to me that no matter how much the young Earth creationists are discredited, millions of Americans still seem to buy into it. Just look at the number of people who have been to Ham's so-called museum over the last couple of months....over 100,000 now. Some of the mainstream scientists who have visited the museum and written reviews have stated that they hope repeat visits will be very low and that maybe, in a year or so's time, attendances will fall off. I wouldn't be so sure, and in my opinion, this is just wishful thinking. Surely this indicates there is something seriously wrong with US science education ? As I have said before, forget ID. It's YECism that US science educators should be worried about. The opinion polls state that over 45% in the US don't accept evolutionary science. These figures would appear to be correct,unfortunately. One minor YEC who has made an ass of himself will not make a blind bit of difference.

Peter Henderson: Some of the mainstream scientists who have visited the museum and written reviews have stated that they hope repeat visits will be very low and that maybe, in a year or so's time, attendances will fall off. I wouldn't be so sure, and in my opinion, this is just wishful thinking.

Peter Henderson writes, "surely... there is something wrong with US science education?"
You think?
Has it occurred to you that American science teachers are soft-pedaling the teaching of evolution precisely because ignorant YECers make their lives miserable if they really do a good job presenting it? On top of that, kids who do get a good science grounding go home and hear 'You don't have to believe that. Evolution is just a theory,' from their parents and their minister. And people who ought to know better spout 'religious tolerance' and 'well, there's things to be said on both sides.'
Until people who really have some influence on public opinion in America start saying out loud, 'the creationists are wrong, and they're hurting our children and our country,' the science teachers' hands are basically tied.
And that is why some of us care about these blogs-- because maybe they will sway enough people that it will no longer be political suicide for our leaders to do the right thing by our kids.

Hoary,

Well said. As a science educator I must deal with these issues constantly. Many students are not prepared for college level work and there is active resistance to evolution education. I have to deal with what students are taught by parents and ministers every semester. And worst of all this means that science in general is being undervalued and critical thinking is going by the wayside.

In Michigan we have a strong evolution component in the state standards and teachers are encouraged to emphasize evolution in the classroom. Still, we have many areas where administrators strongly discourage any mention of evolution.

I believe that there will be a backlash in this country following the next presidential election. I just hope that people resist the temptation to swing the pendulum too far towards the opposite extreme.

I believe that there will be a backlash in this country following the next presidential election. I just hope that people resist the temptation to swing the pendulum too far towards the opposite extreme.

Peter Henderson said: It seems to me that no matter how much the young Earth creationists are discredited, millions of Americans still seem to buy into it. Just look at the number of people who have been to Ham's so-called museum over the last couple of months....over 100,000 now.

Science Avenger,

I love your idea, especially the part about Penn and Teller. Even if we can't raise the 27 million, perhaps they could be persuadeed to do a show about the museum. I know, any publicity is good publicity. However, I would just love to hear Penn rave on and on about the mindless legions denigrating human reason. What a hoot that would be.

no one dies from falling. They die from massive deceleration.

Nigel wrote:Hey, c'mon now. Legion is obviously in need of remedial tuition. The ad homs don't strengthen any arguments against him/her.

You're right of course, but they do add some entertainment value for me at least:-P

— J. Biggs

Sure you can refuse to understand my webpage based on the probable fact that you didn't read THE SECRET DOCTRINE. H.P. Blavatsky's premise is that humans have been on earth for 300 million years, just not physically.

Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

I believe that there will be a backlash in this country following the next presidential election. I just hope that people resist the temptation to swing the pendulum too far towards the opposite extreme.

What I see happening in Middle East or Africa is the 5th race 7th subrace (Jewish) competing with the 6th race 7th subrace (Muslim). The Secret Doctrine claims that the Jewish subrace is born alongside the other subraces during the early beginnings of the race so that the 7th subrace (in a peculiar family race status) watches over the developments of the other subraces the entire racial period of existence. Then when the 7th finishes their job of guiding towards the goal (hint, hint 7th is the goal and it is clearly in sight), the new race is born (1st & 2nd subraces and 7th subrace) all together ready to undertake the years ahead of it.

Meanwhile, on the distant planet Bolox XII, trouble was brewing...

In this area it'd be rabbits instead of armadillos.

In this area it'd be rabbits instead of armadillos.

That method could miss varieties that avoid roads. ;)

Meanwhile, on the distant planet Bolox XII, trouble was brewing...

— Raging Bee

By the way, Brenda Tucker is a (minor) character in the longrunning UK radio drama The Archers. So. Not only uses a pseudonym, but a really, really SAD pseudonym. Thassall.