Dr. Dino in the Dock

I presume that any 'ignorance excuse' Hovind uses will be quite credible.

Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/b8ykm

I think this is hillarious. Some guy who tried to sue the IRS on several occasions claims he's ignorant about tax law. Not to mention the 9500 USD withdrawals, just shy of the limits of 10k.

This is the best his defense can do? And isn't a plea of ignorance an "active" defense? As in, you admit that you're guilty of the crime but have some excuse for it.

So these wages and salaries were all paid in cash? So they didn't keep any records? I take it, even if someone is able to track down how much one of these "volunteers" got paid, the obligation to pay taxes would then fall on the employee and not on Hovind.

Everything considered, this is fairly sophisticated. To avoid getting nabbed for cooking any books, keep none. The income from all sources must be estimated, and these are woolly estimates because people bought tickets, videos, and whatnot in cash. Everything was done in cash. No written records of anything.

Hovind has been operating in the underground economy, on the grand scale. Not having any building permits starts to make more sense - it would be something in writing, part of a paper trail to be avoided at all costs.

But somehow, the IRS has picked a number, out of fairly rarefied air. I wonder how this will be justified, defended, or attacked. I wouldn't be surprised if Hovind has a million dollars in greenbacks buried in a sock somewhere. Next time, he'll avoid banks altogether.

Love offerings? That must look interesting on the tax forms.

To avoid getting nabbed for cooking any books, keep none.

So these wages and salaries were all paid in cash? So they didn't keep any records? I take it, even if someone is able to track down how much one of these "volunteers" got paid, the obligation to pay taxes would then fall on the employee and not on Hovind.

not quite right The reporter should have taken better notes. Or maybe she has her own agenda in this case. There's at least four points she got wrong in this acrticle based on the opening statements yesterday. For instance. The prosecuter said the Hovinds filed bancruptcy in 1996 as a way to avoid taxes. In reality they filed as a legal way to get their vehicles back that the government had seized. It's very common for businesses and people to file for Chapter 7 in order to get assests back that have been seized. Also, the prosecution failed to tell the jury that the Hovinds paid their bills and employees in cash all those years. So it was common for Mrs Hovind to go to the band and withdraw 9k at a time. They said he was withdrawing 9k because if it was 10k the bank has to notify the IRS. BUT, the prosecution also failed to tell the jury there were many times when she withdrew more than the 10k threshold banks use to inform the IRS. You do the math. 45 people working there plus other bills. I think it's bizarre they would pay for everything in cash, but we all know people who cash their checks and pay their rent, phone, electrical, etc, etc in cash every week. Just because some of us think it's odd, does not make it a crime. It also came out yesterday that the prosecution will offer no proof or law that says any of us owe these taxes. No law that any employer is legally obligated to collect these taxes. That the IRS law never EVER defines what an "employer" is. Don't get me wrong here. I'm not saying laws weren't broken. But two points. I'm not sure the goverment is prepared here. AND just because the government says something is true, is there anyone here after the whole "weapons of mass destruction" fiasco who is willing to take any government agency at its word???? I'm certainly not. There's a movie coming out about the whole tax issue. Watch this: http://www.freedomtofascism.com/ The trial is two weeks long. Let's hope the reporter does a better job today getting all the facts straight. M.

Churches-stop incorporating and stop giving God's $ to govt The Lord told us to "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's" When someone donates money to a church/ministry, it becomes God's money and God's money should never find it's way into the hands of the government. Churches/Ministries can be set up to give God's money back to ministry laborers in the form of gifts (just make sure to vary the amount and the frequency....otherwise it could be construed as a salary). Gifts have never been taxable! Churches/ministries need to start thinking out of the box and drop their incorporation status which brings them into spiritual bondage with the government. What do you think the apostles would have thought about filing incorporation documents with the government to start their church? (i.e. asking permission of the government to become a church). We know what they would have done, and it is evident in the manner in which they were martyred. JF

Wikipedia's Hovind article is probably illuminating. He's been in legal trouble for a decade or more. He's so far served no time and paid nothing (as far as I can tell). All for pretty much the same allegations. So if this is a "guaranteed way to land in jail" it sure takes its time about it.

My cynical suspicion is that Hovind is enough of a celebrity for this case to have political ramifications for the judges and lawyers involved. When careers can be made or lost, the actual punishments determined and served tend to get lost in the glare. I predict Hovind will either hang, or suffer nothing detrimental to his continuing activities, depending on which outcome suits the political purposes of those running the system.

In the opinion of most lawyers I've seen comments by, the OJ prosecution could have thrown out 90% of their evidence, and let the defense pick WHICH 90%, and still won easily on the merits. But the merits didn't matter, politics mattered. Publicity is powerful stuff.

wamba:

I've been self-employed, and care has been taken to ensure that this is meaningful. I was told that if I worked ONLY for one client, full time, for an extended period, then I was de facto an employee of that client. Maybe Hovind was astute enough to have his "volunteers" hold other part-time jobs? Whether or not he qualified as an "employer" in the first place is part of the contest.

Coin:

Anytime you have a tax protester getting tried, you're going to have tax protesters popping up with their standard rhetoric. And I notice that one of those comments was a generic tax-protester-protester, providing a link to Evans' standard FAQ. So all the Usual Characters are in place.

So these wages and salaries were all paid in cash? So they didn't keep any records? I take it, even if someone is able to track down how much one of these "volunteers" got paid, the obligation to pay taxes would then fall on the employee and not on Hovind.

Publicity is powerful stuff.

The really ironic thing is that Hovind could have avoided paying much of this tax burden legally. If you read last week's NY Times, you're well aware that Hovind didn't actually have to pay income tax, property tax, or salex tax on most of his stuff. He could have pressured his employees to declare themelves ministers of religion and thus opt out of social security, and they would have had almost no legal recourse.

The American tax system is so biased towards religious organizations, that only a true screwball like Hovind would risk going to jail for tax avoidance. All he had to do was file a few forms.

All he had to do was file a few forms.

Wow, all of Hovind's loony militia pals will be crawling out of the woodwork for this one . . . .

Yes, rape is not a joking matter. All such comments have been moved to the BW. Further mentions (more jokes, or arguing about it) on PT will result in banning. Try and keep it out of the gutter please.

Tax fraud is much funnier, anyway.

Comment #140096 Posted by Flint on October 18, 2006 3:09 PM (e) So these wages and salaries were all paid in cash? So they didn't keep any records? I take it, even if someone is able to track down how much one of these "volunteers" got paid, the obligation to pay taxes would then fall on the employee and not on Hovind.

Everything considered, this is fairly sophisticated. To avoid getting nabbed for cooking any books, keep none. The income from all sources must be estimated, and these are woolly estimates because people bought tickets, videos, and whatnot in cash. Everything was done in cash. No written records of anything.

Badges of Fraud. A. Indicators of Fraud -- Income. 1. Omissions of specific items where similar items are included. 2. Omissions of entire sources of income. 3. Unexplained failure to report substantial amounts of income determined to have been received. 4. Substantial unexplained increases in net worth, especially over a period of years. 5. Substantial excess of personal expenditures over available resources. 6. Bank deposits from unexplained sources substantially exceeding reported income. 7. Concealment of bank accounts, brokerage accounts, and other property. 8. Inadequate explanation for dealing in large sums of currency, or the unexplained expenditure of currency. 9. Consistent concealment of unexplained currency, especially in a business not calling for large amounts of cash. 10. Failure to deposit receipts to business account, contrary to normal practices. 11. Failure to file a return, especially for a period of several years although substantial amounts of taxable income were received. 12. Cashing checks representing income at check cashing services and banks other than the taxpayer's. 13. Covering up sources of receipts by false description of source of disclosed income, and/or nontaxable receipts. B. Indicators of Fraud -- Expenses or Deductions. 1. Substantial overstatement of deductions. 2. Substantial amounts of personal expenditures deducted as business expenses. 3. Claiming fictitious deductions. 4. Dependency exemption claimed for nonexistent, deceased, or self-supporting persons. 5. Loans of trust funds disguised as purchases or deductions. C. Indicators of Fraud -- Books and Records 1. Keeping two sets of books or no books. 2. False entries or alterations made on the books and records, backdated or post dated documents, false invoices, false applications, statements, other false documents, or applications. 3. Invoices are irregularly numbered, unnumbered or altered. 4. Checks made payable to third parties are endorsed back to the taxpayer. Checks made payable to vendors and other business payees are cashed by the taxpayer. 5. Failure to keep adequate records, concealment of records, or refusal to make certain records available. 6. Variances between treatment of questionable items on the return as compared with books. 7. Intentional under or over footing of columns in journal or ledger. 8. Amounts on return not in agreement with amounts in books. 9. Amounts posted to ledger accounts not in agreement with source books or records. 10. Journalizing of questionable items out of correct account. 11. Recording income items in suspense or asset accounts. 12. False receipts to donors by exempt organizations. D. Indicators of Fraud---Allocations of Income 1. Distribution of profits to fictitious partners. 2. Inclusion of income or deductions in the return of a related taxpayer, when difference in tax rates is a factor. E. Indicators of Fraud---Conduct of Taxpayer 1. False statement about a material fact involved in the examination. 2. Attempts to hinder the examination. For example, failure to answer pertinent questions, repeated cancellations of appointments, refusal to provide records, threatening potential witnesses, including the examiner or assaulting the examiner. 3. Failure to follow the advice of accountant or attorney. 4. Failure to make full disclosure of relevant facts to the accountant. 5. The taxpayer's knowledge of taxes and business practices where numerous questionable items appear on the returns. 6. Testimony of employees concerning irregular business practices by the taxpayer. 7. Destruction of books and records, especially if just after examination was started. 8. Transfer of assets for purposes of concealment, or diversion of funds and/or assets by officials or trustees. 9. Patterns of consistent failure over several years to report income fully. 10. Proof that the return was incorrect to such an extent and in respect to items of such character and magnitude as to compel the conclusion that the falsity was known and deliberate. 11. Payment of improper expenses by or for officials or trustees. 12. Willful and intentional failure to execute pension plan amendments 13. Backdating of applications and related documents. 14. Making false statements on TEGE determination letter applications. 15. Use of false social security numbers. 16. Submission of false Form W---4. 17. Submitting a false affidavit. 18. Attempts to bribe the examiner. F. Indicators of Fraud---Methods of Concealment 1. Inadequacy of consideration. 2. Insolvency of transferor. 3. Assets placed in other's names. 4. Transfer of all or nearly all of debtors' property. 5. Close relationship between parties to the transfer. 6. Transfer made in anticipation of a tax assessment or while the investigation of a deficiency is pending. 7. Reservation of any interest in the property transferred. 8. Transaction not in the usual course of business. 9. Retention of possession. 10. Transactions surrounded by secrecy. 11. False entries in books of transferor or transferee. 12. Unusual disposition of the consideration received for the property. 13. Use of secret bank accounts for income. 14. Deposits into bank accounts under nominee names. 15. Conduct of business transactions in false names.

Hovind has been operating in the underground economy, on the grand scale. Not having any building permits starts to make more sense - it would be something in writing, part of a paper trail to be avoided at all costs.

But somehow, the IRS has picked a number, out of fairly rarefied air. I wonder how this will be justified, defended, or attacked. I wouldn't be surprised if Hovind has a million dollars in greenbacks buried in a sock somewhere. Next time, he'll avoid banks altogether.

I was gonna suggest--again? though I don't see the earlier request now--that Nick, Nora, and Asta jump in their sleuth-mobile, head for the Sleuthville Int'l Airport, and fly their sleuth-plane to Pensacola to cover all the developments for us.

But, sheesh, now that I've read Moses's post, I'm sure Hovind's praying we send Nick--or anybody but Moses!

But, sheesh, now that I've read Moses's post, I'm sure Hovind's praying we send Nick---or anybody but Moses!

Moses, you seem to know what you're talking about: how's ignorance for a defense in general, and in Hovind's case? Because from where I'm standing, Hovind has been way outspoken about tax law to claim to not know anything about it.

Moses' comments above are most instructive. It appears that one may use real evidence to reconstruct a life where the usual evidence is missing -- same as in evolution, one may use real evidence from fossils and living things to reconstruct what happened when the cameras were not rolling.

In the end, is it any surprise that someone who denies the reliability of normal, everyday evidence of living, as Hovind does, also ignores all the science data behind evolution? Or vice-versa?

Two people who worked for a Pensacola evangelist testified Wednesday in federal court that they didn't consider where they worked to be a church. . . .

. . .Brian Popp, Hovind's employee for at least eight years, testified that he preferred to be paid in cash and that Hovind said that was the preference of the other employees. "He said if it was up to him, he'd prefer to pay us all with checks," Popp said. Popp said Hovind told him about the bank's requirement to report transactions over $10,000 and said it was "not safe to carry large sums of cash." He also testified employees had a certain "paranoia" about Hovind's run-ins with the IRS, although workers were under the impression Hovind was "on the offensive rather than the defensive." Popp testified that Hovind warned employees not to accept mail addressed to "KENT HOVIND." He said Hovind told the workers the government created a corporation in his "all-caps name." Hovind said if he accepted the mail, he would be accepting the responsibilities associated with that corporation, Popp testified.

Moses:

I agree with everything you write; the point I was trying to make didn't come across (admittedly, it wasn't well organized). Yes, of course if the government so desires, they can use plenty of perfectly good indirect information to construct a perfectly solid case. It takes more time and effort to do this, it costs a lot more, but it can be done.

My reading is that the IRS uses a preliminary cost/benefit analysis to decide if the cost of building the case will exceed the likely proceeds from winning the case (with some reasonable estimate of winning factored in). So the more expensive it is to do this reconstruction and the less likely a carefully-chosen jury of bible-bangers to buy into it, the less compelling the justification to do the preparation. Is this the case?

I may not understand how much of a slam-dunk this is legally. I am aware of how much public tax money was spent NOT convicting OJ of murder despite the sheer magnitude of evidence available. I'm also aware of the publicity value in this case; Hovind's followers represent a pretty damn solid voting bloc.

Finally, there's Hovind's history of legal problems, of a very similar nature, for which as far as I can tell he has paid neither any fines nor served any time. Why is this different?

So my point isn't that the government CAN not build a case; it's that there's a good possibility that they WILL not, or that a jury of, uh, Believers will reject it anyway. And that jury, surely at least as ignorant as I am, won't be very hard to persuade that the government doesn't have any hard evidence, and has made it up out of estimates, misunderstandings, and moonbeams. If the jury members think anything like Hovind thinks, they will want *absolute truth*, not probable cause.

So I'm going to wait and see. No contest here about what the law says or how it operates. And if it produces the results you imply should be essentially automatic, I'll cheer as loud as anyone. But if I were a creationist on that jury, hell would freeze before I'd vote to convict. When has evidence or rules of inference mattered to those armed with the Truth?

...I'm not fooled by the rocks that you got
I'm still, I'm still Dino in the Dock
Paid taxes too little now I'll pay a lot
I'm still, I'm still Dino in the Dock...

If claiming to be a "church" and Hovind failed to get a charitable organization approval from the IRS then he will be at the mercy of the IRS because they make the determination in such situations. Even though churches are not required to get IRS approval first, it is recommended that they do so, specifically so they don't end up in the siuation he now finds himself in. Being at the mercy of the IRS is NOT a good thing, especially when obvious fraud is involved.

Most americans have several credit cards and use those plastic cards to buy material things to satisfy their needs and desires.... BUT NOT ALL CREDIT CARD HOLDERS CAN PAY THEIR CREDIT CARD BILLS AND THOSE BILLS ACCUMULATE OVER THE YEARS... THEN THEY APPLY FOR BANKRUPTCY... THEN THE COURT NODS AND APPROVES THEIR APPLICATION FOR BANKRUPTCY AFTER SPENDING HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS AND NOT BEING ABLE TO PAY UP!

WAKE UP AMERICA!!! THE IRS IS BEING MANIPULATED BY SPIRITUAL FORCES EVEN BEYOND the constitutionally mandated laws!

Dr. KENT HOVIND AND HIS WIFE WERE HARRASSED, MANHANDLED, AND INDICTED NOT BECAUSE OF TAX-EVASION! Dr. KENT HOVIND AND HIS WIFE WERE HARRASSED, MANHANDLED, AND INDICTED BECAUSE THEY ARE WORKING FOR THE PROPAGATION OF CREATION SCIENCE!!!

Dr. "Dino" Hovind is a bankrupt evangelist/missionary/preacher/God's co-worker vs. satan's atheists/evolutionists/non-Bible believing servants!!!

What is the difference between a tax evader and a bankrupt missionary? A tax evader earns money from his profession/business and spends 100% of it on his materials needs and lusts and evades the IRS. A bankrupt missionary conducts FREE seminars on "GOD AS THE ALMIGHTY CREATOR OF MAN AND THE WHOLE UNIVERSE" and never get paid, never earn a penny, and spends his time, money, and life on PREACHING "GOD AS THE ALMIGHTY CREATOR OF MAN AND THE WHOLE UNIVERSE".

DR. KENT HOVIND IS INNOCENT ! WAKE UP AMERICA ! DR. HOVIND IS A PROPHET IN YOUR MIDST ! COME JUDGMENT DAY, ALL OF YOU WHO SCOFF AT DR. HOVIND'S TEACHINGS SHALL FACE THE JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST AND AMONG THOSE WHO WILL RULE WITH CHRIST WILL BE PREACHERS AND PROPHETS OF GOD LIKE DR. KENT HOVIND.

Most americans have several credit cards and use those plastic cards to buy material things to satisfy their needs and desires.... BUT NOT ALL CREDIT CARD HOLDERS CAN PAY THEIR CREDIT CARD BILLS AND THOSE BILLS ACCUMULATE OVER THE YEARS... THEN THEY APPLY FOR BANKRUPTCY... THEN THE COURT NODS AND APPROVES THEIR APPLICATION FOR BANKRUPTCY AFTER SPENDING HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS AND NOT BEING ABLE TO PAY UP!

WAKE UP AMERICA!!! THE IRS IS BEING MANIPULATED BY SPIRITUAL FORCES EVEN BEYOND the constitutionally mandated laws!

Dr. KENT HOVIND AND HIS WIFE WERE HARRASSED, MANHANDLED, AND INDICTED NOT BECAUSE OF TAX-EVASION! Dr. KENT HOVIND AND HIS WIFE WERE HARRASSED, MANHANDLED, AND INDICTED BECAUSE THEY ARE WORKING FOR THE PROPAGATION OF CREATION SCIENCE!!!

Dr. "Dino" Hovind is a bankrupt evangelist/missionary/preacher/God's co-worker vs. satan's atheists/evolutionists/non-Bible believing servants!!!

What is the difference between a tax evader and a bankrupt missionary? A tax evader earns money from his profession/business and spends 100% of it on his materials needs and lusts and evades the IRS. A bankrupt missionary conducts FREE seminars on "GOD AS THE ALMIGHTY CREATOR OF MAN AND THE WHOLE UNIVERSE" and never get paid, never earn a penny, and spends his time, money, and life on PREACHING "GOD AS THE ALMIGHTY CREATOR OF MAN AND THE WHOLE UNIVERSE".

DR. KENT HOVIND IS INNOCENT ! WAKE UP AMERICA ! DR. HOVIND IS A PROPHET IN YOUR MIDST ! COME JUDGMENT DAY, ALL OF YOU WHO SCOFF AT DR. HOVIND'S TEACHINGS SHALL FACE THE JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST AND AMONG THOSE WHO WILL RULE WITH CHRIST WILL BE PREACHERS AND PROPHETS OF GOD LIKE DR. KENT HOVIND.

Yep, get a couple of these echoheads on the jury. Shouldn't be too hard in Florida.

What is the difference between a tax evader and a bankrupt missionary?

— TANYA

Poe's Law strikes again.

When my eye drifted down the thread and saw a couple of posts that were more capitals than lower case I just knew they were from Hovind supporters. Why do these folk have to _shout_ so much?

WAKE UP AMERICA!!! THE IRS IS BEING MANIPULATED BY SPIRITUAL FORCES EVEN BEYOND the constitutionally mandated laws! MR. NICK MATZKE AND HIS WIFE WERE HARRASSED, MANHANDLED, AND INDICTED NOT BECAUSE OF TAX-EVASION! MR. NICK MATZKE AND HIS WIFE WERE HARRASSED, MANHANDLED, AND INDICTED BECAUSE THEY ARE WORKING FOR THE PROPAGATION OF EVOLUTIONARY SCIENCE!!! Mr. "anti-fundie" Matzke is a bankrupt (actually, I hope not) biologist/chemist/geographer vs. fundamentalist non-thinking, rigid, quote mining, lying Bible believing servants!!! ...What is the difference between a tax evader and a legal consultant? A tax evader earns money from his profession/business and spends 100% of it on his materials needs and lusts and evades the IRS. A legal consultant helps "DOWNTRODDEN TAXPAYERS AND PARENTS FIGHT FUNDAMENTALISTS WHO ARE TRYING TO UNCONSTITUTIONALLY FORCE RELIGION INTO SCIENCE" and never get paid, never earn a penny (actually, I don't know if Nick got paid for Dover; I hope so), and spends his time, money, and life on KEEPING THE FUNDIES AWAY FROM OUR CHILDREN'S SCIENCE CLASSES". MR. NICK MATZKE IS INNOCENT ! WAKE UP AMERICA ! MR. MATZKE IS A PROPHET IN YOUR MIDST ! COME JUDGMENT DAY, ALL OF YOU WHO SCOFF AT MR. MATZKE'S TEACHINGS SHALL FACE THE JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST AND AMONG THOSE WHO WILL RULE WITH CHRIST WILL BE PREACHERS AND PROPHETS OF GOD LIKE MR. NICK MATZKE.

Dr. KENT HOVIND AND HIS WIFE...

Actually really the most interesting thing here is that, if this person is for real, apparently Hovind has now been upgraded from a "preacher" to a "prophet". Is this a new development?

Re "Why do these folk have to _shout_ so much?"

Maybe they have their fingers in their ears so much of the time, that they get in the habit of talking loudly to each other?

(Did I say that?)

Henry

Maybe they have their fingers in their ears so much of the time, that they get in the habit of talking loudly to each other?

Re "Because they have their fingers in their ears, they also can't reach the capslock key while typing."

Huh - I hadn't thought of that!

Henry

Most americans have several credit cards and use those plastic cards to buy material things to satisfy their needs and desires.... BUT NOT ALL CREDIT CARD HOLDERS CAN PAY THEIR CREDIT CARD BILLS AND THOSE BILLS ACCUMULATE OVER THE YEARS... THEN THEY APPLY FOR BANKRUPTCY... THEN THE COURT NODS AND APPROVES THEIR APPLICATION FOR BANKRUPTCY AFTER SPENDING HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS AND NOT BEING ABLE TO PAY UP!
WAKE UP AMERICA!!! THE IRS IS BEING MANIPULATED BY SPIRITUAL FORCES EVEN BEYOND the constitutionally mandated laws!
Dr. KENT HOVIND AND HIS WIFE WERE HARRASSED, MANHANDLED, AND INDICTED NOT BECAUSE OF TAX-EVASION! Dr. KENT HOVIND AND HIS WIFE WERE HARRASSED, MANHANDLED, AND INDICTED BECAUSE THEY ARE WORKING FOR THE PROPAGATION OF CREATION SCIENCE!!!
Dr. "Dino" Hovind is a bankrupt evangelist/missionary/preacher/God's co-worker vs. satan's atheists/evolutionists/non-Bible believing servants!!!
What is the difference between a tax evader and a bankrupt missionary? A tax evader earns money from his profession/business and spends 100% of it on his materials needs and lusts and evades the IRS. A bankrupt missionary conducts FREE seminars on "GOD AS THE ALMIGHTY CREATOR OF MAN AND THE WHOLE UNIVERSE" and never get paid, never earn a penny, and spends his time, money, and life on PREACHING "GOD AS THE ALMIGHTY CREATOR OF MAN AND THE WHOLE UNIVERSE".
DR. KENT HOVIND IS INNOCENT ! WAKE UP AMERICA ! DR. HOVIND IS A PROPHET IN YOUR MIDST ! COME JUDGMENT DAY, ALL OF YOU WHO SCOFF AT DR. HOVIND'S TEACHINGS SHALL FACE THE JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST AND AMONG THOSE WHO WILL RULE WITH CHRIST WILL BE PREACHERS AND PROPHETS OF GOD LIKE DR. KENT HOVIND.

Evolutionists wana hang MR. KENT HOVIND AND HIS WIFE. Aren't you evolutionists ever scared of life after death? Huh? Who am I kidding? Evolutionists' dead, decomposing cadavers will evolve into microscopic worms which will evetually evolve into millions of monkeys,apea,orangutans,etc. then into thousands of charles darwinS. IN THEIR DARWINIAN WORLD OF FANTASY!

Hey Pensacola Community, why bother reading that super biased news journal ?

Evolutionists wana hang MR. KENT HOVIND AND HIS WIFE. Aren't you evolutionists ever scared of life after death? Huh? Who am I kidding? Evolutionists' dead, decomposing cadavers will evolve into microscopic worms which will evetually evolve into millions of monkeys,apea,orangutans,etc. then into thousands of charles darwinS. IN THEIR DARWINIAN WORLD OF FANTASY!

Hey Pensacola Community, why bother reading that super biased news journal ?

Well, there goes the theory that they can't reach the caps lock key - in that last couple of posts it got flipped on and off a few times, so obviously it got reached.

Henry

They can't reach. It was a MIRACLE!!!!! ;)

I mean, really, can you imagine anyone of the "evilutionist" posters at TO or PT writing anything like this about Nick or any other of the PT crowd, or, for that matter, Dawkins, or even Darwin?

— GvlGeologist, FCD

Is "hypercapitalized" even a word? :)

It IS a word, NOW!

And it WILL be FOREVERMORE!

Evolutionists wana hang MR. KENT HOVIND AND HIS WIFE.

Aren't you evolutionists ever scared of life after death? Huh? Who am I kidding?

Evolutionists' dead, decomposing cadavers will evolve into microscopic worms which will eventually evolve into millions of monkeys,apes,orangutans,etc. then into thousands of charles darwinS.

IN THEIR DARWINIAN WORLD OF FANTASY!

Hey Pensacola Community, why bother reading that super biased news journal ?

Hey panda bloggers, it is not an impossible probability in your darwinian fantasy of fanciful life forms,that your teeny-weeny brains failed to evolve !

Evolutionists wana hang MR. KENT HOVIND AND HIS WIFE.

Aren't you evolutionists ever scared of life after death? Huh? Who am I kidding?

Evolutionists' dead, decomposing cadavers will evolve into microscopic worms which will eventually evolve into millions of monkeys,apes,orangutans,etc. then into thousands of charles darwinS.

IN THEIR DARWINIAN WORLD OF FANTASY!

Hey Pensacola Community, why bother reading that super biased news journal ?

Hey panda bloggers, it is not an impossible probability in your darwinian fantasy of fanciful life forms,that your teeny-weeny brains failed to evolve !

Evolutionists wana hang MR. KENT HOVIND AND HIS WIFE.

Aren't you evolutionists ever scared of life after death? Huh? Who am I kidding?

Evolutionists' dead, decomposing cadavers will evolve into microscopic worms which will eventually evolve into millions of monkeys,apes,orangutans,etc. then into thousands of charles darwinS.

IN THEIR DARWINIAN WORLD OF FANTASY!

Hey Pensacola Community, why bother reading that super biased news journal ?

Hey panda bloggers, it is not an impossible probability in your darwinian fantasy of fanciful life forms,that your teeny-weeny brains failed to evolve !

You know, I was going to be an EVILutionist for the rest of my life, but that ignorant and illegible screed completely devoid of anything approaching a fact or a rational argument has convinced me of the error of my ways. Really. I didn't know that EVILutionists wanted to hang Hovind and his wife. I cannot believe that! I just thought they wanted to put him in jail for all the lies he's been telling and, of course, violating tax laws. Gosh, how could I have been so wrong. Clearly because one person who cannot compose a full sentence says so, they must want to hang him.

Tell me, if I decide to go the full way and become a Hovind supporter, am I required to give up good grammar and a sense of when to actually use capitals or is it optional?

michael suttkus not only do u not read THE HOLY SCRIPTURE ... u don't read any ... at all... u must go bak 2 grade skul 2 learn arts n lit.

hey i got a pet monkey who can scribble poems ... care to converse with one of your ancestors?

LOL!

michael suttkus not only do u not read THE HOLY SCRIPTURE ... u don't read any ... at all... u must go bak 2 grade skul 2 learn arts n lit.

hey i got a pet monkey who can scribble poems ... care to converse with one of your ancestors?

LOL!

suttkus u wana blog at www.pandumbs.com

u r welkam. LOL!

... from amoeba ... from rocks ... from apes ...

u r d missin link....

Kent H told u, it's not so!
u tot kent wrong! so u hate kent ... 'coz ur ... from amoeba ... from rocks ... from apes ...

u r d missin link....

LOL!!!

After discussing the "punishment" for an evangelist who obeyed the constitutional mandate of separation of church and state, let us now discuss the "punishment" of non-Bible believing pro-darwinian atheists who scoff at Dr. Hovind and the words of God.

Read the Book of Thessalonians:

8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Man, can't you just feel the Christian love in this thread? I can hardly stand it.

Are we getting a cross-section of a number of typical Hovind supporters here (snicker, giggle), or just one super-duper-zealous example?

Man, can't you just feel the Christian love in this thread? I can hardly stand it.

"The Stupid... it BURNS!!!"

Nope, I'm not gonna rise to the bait on this one. I will just point out that I am a Christian and while I can't claim to read scripture, I do read the Bible. Unlike the creationists, I know the difference. I wonder if they can figure it out...

from kh:
Scoffers
You know, the Bible warned us that was going to happen. In II Peter chapter 3 it says, "Knowing this first, there shall come in the last days scoffers." Did you know there are people that scoff at the Bible? I deal with them on a regular basis. I attract them like a magnet! Scoffers.

Why They Scoff

And it says they are going to walk after their own lusts. See, the reason they scoff at this Book is because of their sin, not because of their science. There is no scientific reason to reject the Bible. But they don't like this Bible because it chaps their hide. Well, get some Vaseline, man, you are going to need it! Because we're going to be judged according to this book---whether you like it or not.

What They Scoff

But the scoffers walk after their own lusts and they're going to say, "where's the promise of His coming, for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation." [2 Peter 3:4] That's an extremely important phrase. The scoffers are going to teach something in the last days that means 'the way things are happening now is the way they've always been happening---long, slow, gradual processes called Uniformitarianism.' The Bible warned us in 2 Peter that the scoffers are going to teach the way things are happening now is the way they've always been happening. The problem with that is, the scoffers are willingly ignorant. It says in the next verse, they are "willingly ignorant." In the Greek, that means 'dumb on purpose.'

from kh:
The Creation. The scoffers are willingly ignorant of how God made the heavens (and heaven is plural. There is more than one heaven; we talk about that in videotape number one. There is more than one heaven.) They're ignorant of how God made the heavens and the earth and how it was standing out of the water and in the water. The earth when God first made it was a lot different than it is today. It used to have water above the atmosphere and more water under the crust of the earth and we talk about all that on videotape number one and on videotape number six. But the scoffers are ignorant about the creation and they're also ignorant of the flood.
The Flood. The next verse tells us, "whereby the world then was, being overflowed with water perished." The world was destroyed by a flood. You see, the scoffers don't want to admit God created the world because that means God owns it. And that means there might be some rules. You know, like "thou shalt not..." And they don't want those rules so they scoff at the Bible. Rather than change their lifestyle and get right with God, they try to eliminate the thing that's bothering them, which is God's word. They're also ignorant of the flood. They don't want to admit that there was a flood because if there was a worldwide flood, that means God has a right to judge His creation. And He does by the way; this is His world. He can wreck it if He wants.

from kh:

Where Darwin Went Wrong

While he sailed around on that voyage, he brought with him some books to read. He brought his Bible (he had just gotten out of Bible College) and he brought with him this book, Principles of Geology. As Charles Darwin read this book, Principles of Geology, it absolutely changed his life forever. Later in life he said, "Lyell one of my favorite authors, has made a profound influence on my life." As he read that book, Charles Darwin began to doubt the Bible and began to think the earth is millions and millions of years old. That's the book that changed his life. Studying about Geology. And it's amazing how many kids go through seventh or eighth grade in regular public school and they are taught in their earth science book that the earth is millions of years old and it destroys their faith in the Bible and they don't even realize it. It undermines it. Cuts it right out from under them. That's where it all starts.
Later in life Darwin said, "Disbelief crept over me very slowly. I felt no distress." By the way, he did not repent on his deathbed. His wife started the rumor that he did and that rumor still circulates today. But the best research says he did not repent on his deathbed. He remained loyal to his atheism right up to the end. But that is the book that changed Charles Darwin's life.

"Knowing this first, there shall come in the last days scoffers."

Is the name of the latest creo-whack also in Tagalog?

Maybe Nurse Bettinke needs to open a new wing of her sanatorium in Manila...*

_______________
*Duh, I'm NOT assuming that Tagalog speakers are any more credulous than anybody else, but we do seem to have attracted some Tagalog-tagged trolls here in the last day or tw.

Tagalog or Pinoy, not sure which dialect. Anyway, she would do better to open the facility in Balanga, 174 km from Manila. Closer to the victums, um, I mean patients...

well, if these are the last days

Is the name of the latest creo-whack also in Tagalog?

Re "I wish the fundies would make up their damn mind about when the heck these "last days" are."

Could they be thinking of the prediction that the sun will expand into a red giant at some point? No wait, that's not due for a few billion years. Or maybe they think the sun ages faster than astrophysicists think it does? Huh.

Henry

for dave benson:

from: The Anatomy of a School Shooting

...Harris married his deceitfulness with a total lack of remorse or empathy---another distinctive quality of the psychopath. Fuselier was finally convinced of his diagnosis when he read Harris' response to being punished after being caught breaking into a van. Klebold and Harris had avoided prosecution for the robbery by participating in a "diversion program" that involved counseling and community service. Both killers feigned regret to obtain an early release, but Harris had relished the opportunity to perform. He wrote an ingratiating letter to his victim offering empathy, rather than just apologies. Fuselier remembers that it was packed with statements like Jeez, I understand now how you feel and I understand what this did to you.

"But he wrote that strictly for effect," Fuselier said. "That was complete manipulation. At almost the exact same time, he wrote down his real feelings in his journal: 'Isn't America supposed to be the land of the free? How come, if I'm free, I can't deprive a stupid f---ing dumbshit from his possessions if he leaves them sitting in the front seat of his f---ing van out in plain sight and in the middle of f---ing nowhere on a Frif---ingday night. NATURAL SELECTION. F---er should be shot.' "

Harris' pattern of grandiosity, glibness, contempt, lack of empathy, and superiority read like the bullet points on Hare's Psychopathy Checklist and convinced Fuselier and the other leading psychiatrists close to the case that Harris was a psychopath.

Darwin's Evolution is the religion of satan!

Book of John, "The Holy Bible"

44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

actually, "Chris", what we should take from your missive is that insanity often attempts to defend itself with misinterpretations of reality.

kinda like you just did.

Darwin's Evolution is the religion of satan!

Book of John, "The Holy Bible"

44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

Some evolutionists claim to be atheists. In reality, evolutionists (atheist or not), believe in god... but not the Almighty God the Creator of man and the universe!

Who is your god toe jam? Your god is the god of this world! (2Corinth4:4)

The Holy Bible, Book of John, chapter 5:

42But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.

43I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

44How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

45Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

46For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.

47But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Jesus Christ, the son of God the Creator of man and the universe

toejam, d 'jew"

48The Jews answered him, "Aren't we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?"

49"I am not possessed by a demon," said Jesus, "but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. 50I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death."

52At this the Jews exclaimed, "Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that if anyone keeps your word, he will never taste death. 53Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?"

54Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word.

hear ye toejamjew,larsonjew,etc.

You'll remember this final message on that final day when you're facing God Almighty the Creator of man and the whole universe.

Book of John, chapter 8:

42Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? 47He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."

hear ye toejamjew,larsonjew,etc.

You'll remember this final message on that final day when you're facing God Almighty the Creator of man and the whole universe.

Book of John, chapter 8:

42Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? 47He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."

for leni flunk and all the scoffers :

THE SINKING OF THE TITANIC

When we think of events that have transpired in history over the last one hundred to two hundred years, there are certain events that stand out as ones of great horror, great surprise and great sadness. Of the many that come to mind the most devastating have been the destruction of the the World Trade Center in New York City and the sinking of the Titanic.

The greatest tragedies in the last two hundred years can be traced to the Jesuits. We will now show that the Jesuits planned and carried out the sinking of the Titanic, and we will show why they did it.

Since the early 1830's, America did not have a central bank. The Jesuits desperately wanted another central bank in America so that they would have a bottomless reservoir from which to draw money for their many wars and other hideous schemes around the world.

In 1910, seven men met on Jekyll Island just off the coast of Georgia to establish a central bank, which they called the Federal Reserve Bank. These men were Nelson Aldrich and Frank Vanderlip, both representing the Rockefeller financial empire; Henry Davison, Charles Norton, and Benjamin Strong, representing J.P. Morgan; and Paul Warburg, representing the Rothschild banking dynasty of Europe. We have already seen that the Rothschilds were the banking agents for the papacy's Jesuits, holding "the key to the wealth of the Roman Catholic Church."

The Morgans were friendly competitors with the Rothschilds and became socially close to them. Morgan's London-based firm was saved from financial ruin in 1857 by the Bank of England over which the Rothschilds held great influence. Thereafter, Morgan appears to have served as a Rothschild financial agent and went to great length to appear totally American....

His [Rockefeller's] entry into the field was not welcomed by Morgan, and they became fierce competitors. Eventually, they decided to minimize their competition by entering into joint ventures. In the end, they worked together to create a national banking cartel called the Federal Reserve System. --- G. Edward Griffin, The Creature from Jekyll Island, American Opinion Publishing, p. 209. (Emphasis supplied).

These three financial families, the Rothschilds, Morgans, and Rockefellers all do the bidding of the Jesuit Order because of Jesuit infiltration in their organizations. They do whatever is necessary to destroy constitutional liberty in America and to bring the pope to world domination. As we look back over the 20th century, we see how successful the Jesuits have been. They have continued to squander the wealth of America and continually attack its great constitution and civil liberties. Daily, the power of the pope in Vatican City increases. One day they will achieve total power again.

The building of the Titanic began in 1909 at a shipyard in Belfast, the capitol of Northern Ireland. Belfast was a Protestant haven and was hated by the Jesuits. World War One began just a few years later.

The Titanic was one of a fleet of ships owned by the White Star Line, an international shipping company.

Banking was not the only business in which Morgan had a strong financial interest. Using his control over the nation's railroads as financial leverage, he had created an international shipping trust which included Germany's two largest lines plus one of the two in England, the White Star Lines. --- Ibid, p. 246.

There were a number of very rich and powerful men who made it abundantly clear that they were not in favor of the Federal Reserve System. J.P. Morgan was ordered by the Jesuits to build the Titanic. This 'unsinkable' ship would serve as the death ship for those who opposed the Jesuits' plan for a Federal Reserve system.

These rich and powerful men would have been able to block the establishment of the Federal Reserve, and their power and fortunes had to be taken out of their hands. They had to be destroyed by a means so preposterous that no one would suspect that they were murdered, and no one would suspect the Jesuits. The Titanic was the vehicle of their destruction. In order to further shield the papacy and the Jesuits from suspicion, many Irish, French, and Italian Roman Catholics immigrating to the New World were aboard. They were people who were expendable. Protestants from Belfast who wanted to immigrate to the United States were also invited on board.

All the wealthy and powerful men the Jesuits wanted to get rid of were invited to take the cruise. Three of the richest and most important of these were Benjamin Guggenheim, Isador Strauss, the head of Macy's Department Stores, and John Jacob Astor, probably the wealthiest man in the world. Their total wealth, at that time, using dollar values of their day was more than 500 million dollars. Today that amount of money would be worth nearly eleven billion dollars. These three men were coaxed and encouraged to board the floating palace. They had to be destroyed because the Jesuits knew they would use their wealth and influence to oppose a Federal Reserve Bank as well as the various wars that were being planned.

Edward Smith was the captain of the Titanic. He had been traveling the North Atlantic waters for twenty-six years and was the world's most experienced master of the North Atlantic routs. He had worked for Jesuit, J.P. Morgan, for many years.

Edward Smith was a 'Jesuit tempore co-adjator.' This means that he was not a priest, but he was a Jesuit of the short robe. Jesuits are not necessarily priests. Those who are not priests serve the order through their profession. Anyone could be a Jesuit, and their identity would not be known. Edward Smith served the Jesuit Order in his profession as a sea captain.

Many interesting points about the Titanic are discussed in a videotape made by National Geographic in 1986. The videotape is entitled The Secrets of the Titanic. When the Titanic departed from Southern England on April 10, 1912, Francis Browne, the Jesuit master of Edward Smith, boarded the Titanic. This man was the most powerful Jesuit in all of Ireland and answered directly to the general of the Jesuit Order in Rome. The videotape declares:

A vacationing priest, Father Francis Browne, caught these poignant snapshots of his fellow passengers, most of them on a voyage to eternity. The next day Titanic made her last stop off the coast of Queenstown, Ireland. Here tenders brought out the last passengers; mostly Irish immigrants headed for new homes in America. And here, the lucky Father Browne disembarked.... Father Browne caught Captain Smith peering down from Titanic's bridge, poised on the brink of destiny. --- The Secrets of the Titanic, National Geographic, video tape, 1986.

Here is Jesuit treachery at its finest. The Provincial [Father Francis Browne] boards Titanic, photographs the victims, most assuredly briefs the Captain concerning his oath as a Jesuit, and the following morning bids him farewell. --- Eric J. Phelps, Vatican Assassins, Halycon Unified Services, p. 427.

Browne went over with Edward Smith one last time exactly what he was supposed to do in the North Atlantic waters. The Jesuit General told Francis Browne what was to happen; Browne then tells Smith and the rest is history. Edward Smith believed that the Jesuit General

. . . is the god of the [Jesuit] society, and nothing but his electric touch can galvanize their dead corpses into life and action. Until he speaks, they are like serpents coiled up in their wintry graves, lifeless and inactive; but the moment he gives the word of command, each member springs instantaneously to his feet, leaving unfinished whatsoever may have engaged him, ready to assail whomsoever he may require to be assailed, and to strike wheresoever he shall direct a blow to be stricken. --- R.W. Thompson, The Footprints of the Jesuits, Hunt and Eaton, pp. 72, 73.

Edward Smith was given an order to sink the Titanic and that is exactly what he did.

By the command of God, [the Jesuit General] it is lawful to murder the innocent, to rob, to commit all lewdness, because he [the Pope] is Lord of life, and death, and of all things; and thus to fulfill his mandate is our duty. --- W. C. Brownlee, Secret Instructions of the Jesuits, American and Foreign Christian Union, p. 143.

There is no record in history of an association whose organization has stood for three hundred years unchanged and unaltered by all the assaults of men and time, and which has exercised such an immense influence over the destinies of mankind... 'The ends justify the means,' is his favorite maxim; and as his only end, as we have shewn, is the order, at its bidding the Jesuit is ready to commit any crime whatsoever. --- G. B. Nicolini, The History of the Jesuits, Henry G. Bohn, pp. 495, 496, emphasis added.

Let us remember the oath that every person takes to become a part of the Jesuit Order:

I should regard myself as a dead body, without will or intelligence, as a little crucifix which is turned about unresistingly at the will of him who holds it as a staff in the hands of an old man, who uses it as he requires it, and as it suits him best. --- R. W. Thompson, The Footprints of the Jesuits, Hunt and Eaton, p. 54.

When a person takes the Jesuit Oath, he is bound to his master until the day that he dies. Edward Smith had become a man without will or intelligence. He would commit any crime the Order wanted him to commit. Edward Smith had been required for martyrdom. On board the Titanic that night, Edward Smith knew his duty. He was under oath. The ship had been built for the enemies of the Jesuits. After three days at sea with only one pair of glasses for the bridge, Edward Smith propelled the Titanic full speed ahead, twenty-two knots, on a moonless dark night through a gigantic ice field nearly eighty square miles in area. Edward Smith did this despite at least eight telegrams warning him to be more cautious because he was going too fast.

Did Edward Smith need one caution? No, he had been traveling those waters for twenty-six years. He knew there were icebergs in that area. But eight cautions did not stop this man who was under the Jesuit oath, and under orders to destroy the Titanic.

The absurdity of warning veteran Captain Edward Smith repeatedly on Titanic's tragic night to slow down is nothing short of preposterous. The fact that Smith never listened or heeded the warnings is insane. He had been given orders from his god in the Vatican, and nothing would turn him from his course.

The encyclopedias paint a very tragic picture of Smith in his last hours. When it came time to give the order to load and lower the lifeboats, Smith wavered and one of his aids had to approach him for the order to be given. Smith's legendary skills of leadership seem to have left him; he was curiously indecisive and unusually cautious on that fatal night. Are these words to describe a legendary sea captain with 26 years of experience, or are these words to describe a man who was struggling in his mind whether he should do his duty as a sea captain or obey his master who told him to sink the ship?

John Jacob Astor's wife got into a life boat and was saved, while John Jacob Astor perished in the waters of the North Atlantic. There were not enough lifeboats and many of them were only half full with only women and children.
To prevent nearby freighters from responding with help, the distress flares were white when they should have been red. White flares to passing freighters state that everybody was having a party.

One of the greatest tragedies of the twentieth century, the sinking of the Titanic, lies at the door of the Jesuit Order. The unsinkable ship, the floating palace was created to be the tomb for the wealthy, who opposed the Federal Reserve System. By April, 1912, all opposition to the Federal Reserve was eliminated. In December of 1913, the Federal Reserve System came into being in the United States. Eight months later, the Jesuits had sufficient funding through the Federal Reserve bank to begin World War One.

from: Pacific Institute

for leni flunk and all scoffers:

THE SINKING OF THE TITANIC

When we think of events that have transpired in history over the last one hundred to two hundred years, there are certain events that stand out as ones of great horror, great surprise and great sadness. Of the many that come to mind the most devastating have been the destruction of the the World Trade Center in New York City and the sinking of the Titanic.

The greatest tragedies in the last two hundred years can be traced to the Jesuits. We will now show that the Jesuits planned and carried out the sinking of the Titanic, and we will show why they did it.

Since the early 1830's, America did not have a central bank. The Jesuits desperately wanted another central bank in America so that they would have a bottomless reservoir from which to draw money for their many wars and other hideous schemes around the world.

In 1910, seven men met on Jekyll Island just off the coast of Georgia to establish a central bank, which they called the Federal Reserve Bank. These men were Nelson Aldrich and Frank Vanderlip, both representing the Rockefeller financial empire; Henry Davison, Charles Norton, and Benjamin Strong, representing J.P. Morgan; and Paul Warburg, representing the Rothschild banking dynasty of Europe. We have already seen that the Rothschilds were the banking agents for the papacy's Jesuits, holding "the key to the wealth of the Roman Catholic Church."

The Morgans were friendly competitors with the Rothschilds and became socially close to them. Morgan's London-based firm was saved from financial ruin in 1857 by the Bank of England over which the Rothschilds held great influence. Thereafter, Morgan appears to have served as a Rothschild financial agent and went to great length to appear totally American....

His [Rockefeller's] entry into the field was not welcomed by Morgan, and they became fierce competitors. Eventually, they decided to minimize their competition by entering into joint ventures. In the end, they worked together to create a national banking cartel called the Federal Reserve System. --- G. Edward Griffin, The Creature from Jekyll Island, American Opinion Publishing, p. 209. (Emphasis supplied).

These three financial families, the Rothschilds, Morgans, and Rockefellers all do the bidding of the Jesuit Order because of Jesuit infiltration in their organizations. They do whatever is necessary to destroy constitutional liberty in America and to bring the pope to world domination. As we look back over the 20th century, we see how successful the Jesuits have been. They have continued to squander the wealth of America and continually attack its great constitution and civil liberties. Daily, the power of the pope in Vatican City increases. One day they will achieve total power again.

The building of the Titanic began in 1909 at a shipyard in Belfast, the capitol of Northern Ireland. Belfast was a Protestant haven and was hated by the Jesuits. World War One began just a few years later.

The Titanic was one of a fleet of ships owned by the White Star Line, an international shipping company.

Banking was not the only business in which Morgan had a strong financial interest. Using his control over the nation's railroads as financial leverage, he had created an international shipping trust which included Germany's two largest lines plus one of the two in England, the White Star Lines. --- Ibid, p. 246.

There were a number of very rich and powerful men who made it abundantly clear that they were not in favor of the Federal Reserve System. J.P. Morgan was ordered by the Jesuits to build the Titanic. This 'unsinkable' ship would serve as the death ship for those who opposed the Jesuits' plan for a Federal Reserve system.

These rich and powerful men would have been able to block the establishment of the Federal Reserve, and their power and fortunes had to be taken out of their hands. They had to be destroyed by a means so preposterous that no one would suspect that they were murdered, and no one would suspect the Jesuits. The Titanic was the vehicle of their destruction. In order to further shield the papacy and the Jesuits from suspicion, many Irish, French, and Italian Roman Catholics immigrating to the New World were aboard. They were people who were expendable. Protestants from Belfast who wanted to immigrate to the United States were also invited on board.

All the wealthy and powerful men the Jesuits wanted to get rid of were invited to take the cruise. Three of the richest and most important of these were Benjamin Guggenheim, Isador Strauss, the head of Macy's Department Stores, and John Jacob Astor, probably the wealthiest man in the world. Their total wealth, at that time, using dollar values of their day was more than 500 million dollars. Today that amount of money would be worth nearly eleven billion dollars. These three men were coaxed and encouraged to board the floating palace. They had to be destroyed because the Jesuits knew they would use their wealth and influence to oppose a Federal Reserve Bank as well as the various wars that were being planned.

Edward Smith was the captain of the Titanic. He had been traveling the North Atlantic waters for twenty-six years and was the world's most experienced master of the North Atlantic routs. He had worked for Jesuit, J.P. Morgan, for many years.

Edward Smith was a 'Jesuit tempore co-adjator.' This means that he was not a priest, but he was a Jesuit of the short robe. Jesuits are not necessarily priests. Those who are not priests serve the order through their profession. Anyone could be a Jesuit, and their identity would not be known. Edward Smith served the Jesuit Order in his profession as a sea captain.

Many interesting points about the Titanic are discussed in a videotape made by National Geographic in 1986. The videotape is entitled The Secrets of the Titanic. When the Titanic departed from Southern England on April 10, 1912, Francis Browne, the Jesuit master of Edward Smith, boarded the Titanic. This man was the most powerful Jesuit in all of Ireland and answered directly to the general of the Jesuit Order in Rome. The videotape declares:

A vacationing priest, Father Francis Browne, caught these poignant snapshots of his fellow passengers, most of them on a voyage to eternity. The next day Titanic made her last stop off the coast of Queenstown, Ireland. Here tenders brought out the last passengers; mostly Irish immigrants headed for new homes in America. And here, the lucky Father Browne disembarked.... Father Browne caught Captain Smith peering down from Titanic's bridge, poised on the brink of destiny. --- The Secrets of the Titanic, National Geographic, video tape, 1986.

Here is Jesuit treachery at its finest. The Provincial [Father Francis Browne] boards Titanic, photographs the victims, most assuredly briefs the Captain concerning his oath as a Jesuit, and the following morning bids him farewell. --- Eric J. Phelps, Vatican Assassins, Halycon Unified Services, p. 427.

Browne went over with Edward Smith one last time exactly what he was supposed to do in the North Atlantic waters. The Jesuit General told Francis Browne what was to happen; Browne then tells Smith and the rest is history. Edward Smith believed that the Jesuit General

. . . is the god of the [Jesuit] society, and nothing but his electric touch can galvanize their dead corpses into life and action. Until he speaks, they are like serpents coiled up in their wintry graves, lifeless and inactive; but the moment he gives the word of command, each member springs instantaneously to his feet, leaving unfinished whatsoever may have engaged him, ready to assail whomsoever he may require to be assailed, and to strike wheresoever he shall direct a blow to be stricken. --- R.W. Thompson, The Footprints of the Jesuits, Hunt and Eaton, pp. 72, 73.

Edward Smith was given an order to sink the Titanic and that is exactly what he did.

By the command of God, [the Jesuit General] it is lawful to murder the innocent, to rob, to commit all lewdness, because he [the Pope] is Lord of life, and death, and of all things; and thus to fulfill his mandate is our duty. --- W. C. Brownlee, Secret Instructions of the Jesuits, American and Foreign Christian Union, p. 143.

There is no record in history of an association whose organization has stood for three hundred years unchanged and unaltered by all the assaults of men and time, and which has exercised such an immense influence over the destinies of mankind... 'The ends justify the means,' is his favorite maxim; and as his only end, as we have shewn, is the order, at its bidding the Jesuit is ready to commit any crime whatsoever. --- G. B. Nicolini, The History of the Jesuits, Henry G. Bohn, pp. 495, 496, emphasis added.

Let us remember the oath that every person takes to become a part of the Jesuit Order:

I should regard myself as a dead body, without will or intelligence, as a little crucifix which is turned about unresistingly at the will of him who holds it as a staff in the hands of an old man, who uses it as he requires it, and as it suits him best. --- R. W. Thompson, The Footprints of the Jesuits, Hunt and Eaton, p. 54.

When a person takes the Jesuit Oath, he is bound to his master until the day that he dies. Edward Smith had become a man without will or intelligence. He would commit any crime the Order wanted him to commit. Edward Smith had been required for martyrdom. On board the Titanic that night, Edward Smith knew his duty. He was under oath. The ship had been built for the enemies of the Jesuits. After three days at sea with only one pair of glasses for the bridge, Edward Smith propelled the Titanic full speed ahead, twenty-two knots, on a moonless dark night through a gigantic ice field nearly eighty square miles in area. Edward Smith did this despite at least eight telegrams warning him to be more cautious because he was going too fast.

Did Edward Smith need one caution? No, he had been traveling those waters for twenty-six years. He knew there were icebergs in that area. But eight cautions did not stop this man who was under the Jesuit oath, and under orders to destroy the Titanic.

The absurdity of warning veteran Captain Edward Smith repeatedly on Titanic's tragic night to slow down is nothing short of preposterous. The fact that Smith never listened or heeded the warnings is insane. He had been given orders from his god in the Vatican, and nothing would turn him from his course.

The encyclopedias paint a very tragic picture of Smith in his last hours. When it came time to give the order to load and lower the lifeboats, Smith wavered and one of his aids had to approach him for the order to be given. Smith's legendary skills of leadership seem to have left him; he was curiously indecisive and unusually cautious on that fatal night. Are these words to describe a legendary sea captain with 26 years of experience, or are these words to describe a man who was struggling in his mind whether he should do his duty as a sea captain or obey his master who told him to sink the ship?

John Jacob Astor's wife got into a life boat and was saved, while John Jacob Astor perished in the waters of the North Atlantic. There were not enough lifeboats and many of them were only half full with only women and children.
To prevent nearby freighters from responding with help, the distress flares were white when they should have been red. White flares to passing freighters state that everybody was having a party.

One of the greatest tragedies of the twentieth century, the sinking of the Titanic, lies at the door of the Jesuit Order. The unsinkable ship, the floating palace was created to be the tomb for the wealthy, who opposed the Federal Reserve System. By April, 1912, all opposition to the Federal Reserve was eliminated. In December of 1913, the Federal Reserve System came into being in the United States. Eight months later, the Jesuits had sufficient funding through the Federal Reserve bank to begin World War One.

from: Pacific Institute

hmmmm I think they have already tapped into that Koolaid supply-there is a serious disconnect with reality here.

We will now show that the Jesuits planned and carried out the sinking of the Titanic, and we will show why they did it.

hmmmm I think they have already tapped into that Koolaid supply-there is a serious disconnect with reality here.

for leni FLUNK,kl KOOLADE-sipper, and all you scoffers:

You'll remember this final message on that final day when you're facing God Almighty the Creator of man and the whole universe.

Book of John, chapter 8:

42Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? 47He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."

Is all that Jew-hating part of Hovind's shtick?

Where in the book of John does it say that Jesuits will sink the Titanic? I've heard of consipiracy theories, but that one beats all.

Where in the book of John does it say that Jesuits will sink the Titanic? I've heard of consipiracy theories, but that one beats all.

THE SINKING OF THE TITANIC

Is all that Jew-hating part of Hovind's shtick?

actually, moving up a level, that site is a wealth of info on 'ol Kent:

http://www.kent-hovind.com/

I'm so glad the idiot brigade published all that nonsense multiple times. I wouldn't have believed it if they had posted only once.

they?

are we sure it isn't just one very schizophrenic god-botherer?

Is all that Jew-hating part of Hovind's shtick?

I'm so glad the idiot brigade published all that nonsense multiple times. I wouldn't have believed it if they had posted only once.

— Michael Suttkus, II

they? are we sure it isn't just one very schizophrenic god-botherer?

— Sir_Toejam

Hovind has lots of ties to the anti-Semitic militia movement. (So does Pat Robertson, by the way.) The Southern Poverty Law Center (which runs Klanwatch) lists Hovind as an anti-Semite.

— 'Rev Dr' Lenny Flank

lists Hovind as an anti-Semite.

Is all that Jew-hating part of Hovind's shtick?

Is all that Jew-hating part of Hovind's shtick?

"hear ye toejamjew,larsonjew,etc."

If you are trying to plead insanity by continuing these comments, it wont help. (At least I think this is the thread I commented in - the comment is probably moved and I lost my reference.)

It is still intolerant to your thinking fellow man to incessantly quote dogmatic texts.

It is also intolerant to jews to go around attaching the reference to sundry people for no good reason.

I need my net connection fixed now. :(
It's bad enough that the connection at work is so bad that PT won't always load properly or I might get a 'GATEWAY TIMEOUT!' message if I'm lucky and that's not even taking into account the stupid banning of certain webpages & stuff (they've banned Larry's blog under the banner of "porn" for pete's sake), hell, this message might not even work. I've had nearly a month of no connection at home (that'll hopefully be sorted in a few) because of someone who really needs to be hit by a bolt from the blue (or something very heavy*).

Okay. I feel better. So that's my rant. I say this because... I'm missing all the fun, dammit!!!

:(

*Note to God, fundies and any law enforcement agencies - not serious.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not so familiar with tax laws but as I see it, the only mistake made by Creation Science Evangelical Ministry Leader Mr. Kent Hovind was non-filing of 501(c)(3) exemption documents. Any neutral jury can see for themselves that Mr. Kent Hovind was running an organized ministry for religious, educational, and scientific purposes. Even DinoLand tickets were meant as donation to be used to fund the continuous evangelization of kids and adult visitors who visit DinoLand. All rides there had lessons for children on believing God as the Almighty Creator of man and the universe.

I really do not think that Mr. Hovind wanted to evade the IRS. Let me remind the jury that even our country's presidents (majority) swore by the Bible when they were sworn into office. Court witnesses (often) are also made to swear by the Bible. There is one thing that the IRS can't admit -- God's laws as contained in The Holy Bible are binding to Creation Science Evangelical Ministry led by Mr. Kent Hovind. The IRS knows that the 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code applies to Mr. Hovind's CSE Church but the IRS doesn't want to recognize the tax-exempt status of
Mr. Hovind's CSE Church. For what reasons? Is there a political motive behind the IRS' investigation of Mr. Hovind's CSE Church?

Since the IRS is accusing Mr. Hovind to be an "employer" with a "Dino Corporation" "employing" 30 "employees", why summon only four "employees" who either have lost faith in the doctrines of Creation Science Evangelical Ministry or have grudges against Mr. Hovind? Why not summon all 30 "employees" just to be fair and democratic?

The jury might find this question "relevant" -- Is there a law penalizing any leader of Church or Ministry of criminal prosecution and/or imprisonment if he failed to file a 501(c)(3) ?

If I were Mr. Hovind's counsel, I will definitely question Mr. Schneider's political motive behind this "accumulated suits" against Creation Science Evangelical Ministry Leader Mr. Kent Hovind. I wonder what Mr. Schneider's religious color is. If the jury is consisted of non-blinded/impartial/neutral/non-partisan God-believing American citizens, then Creation Science Evangelical Ministry Leader Mr. Kent Hovind and his helpmate in propagating the gospel, Mrs. Jo Hovind, will be declared innocent.

"Mr. Kent Hovind and his helpmate in propagating the gospel, Mrs. Jo Hovind, will be declared innocent."

I dont know how to tell you, but...
...this is to good to be true..
I mean seriously this made my weekend, Im wiggling thru the internet and come upon Kent because his Google/you tube stock must be up, and i have a good laugh, then discover, what now? 58 counts of tax evation?

those tapes must be worth gold now..Buying your USed abused Kent Hovind tapes 2.33$

Can we make a GW style remix of his retoric...
"STAY THE COURSE, KENT"