Win in Dover!

"The citizens of the Dover area were poorly served by the members of the Board who voted for the ID Policy," Jones wrote. "It is ironic that several of these individuals, who so staunchly and proudly touted their religious convictions in public, would time and again lie to cover their tracks and disguise the real purpose behind the ID Policy."

It is big ... see p. 136
http://www.pamd.uscourts.gov/kitzmiller/kitzmiller_342.pdf

My personal favorite so far:

The evidence at trial demonstrates that ID is
nothing less than the progeny of creationism. (p. 31)

This is not restricted to the hamfisted approach in Dayton that the DI attempted to back away from as the trial neared, but aimed squarely at ID in general. A big win indeed.

Let the spin begin!!!

Yeah baby!....On to Kansas!!!

Check this out for a laugh:

Richard Thompson, the Thomas More center's president and chief counsel, said Dover's policy takes a modest approach.

"All the Dover school board did was allow students to get a glimpse of a controversy that is really boiling over in the scientific community," Thompson said.

From:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,170417,00.html

The proper application of both the endorsement and Lemon tests to the facts of this case makes it abundantly clear that the Board's ID Policy violates the Establishment Clause. In making this determination, we have addressed the seminal question of whether ID is science. We have concluded that it is not, and moreover that ID cannot uncouple itself from its creationist, and thus religious, antecedents. Both Defendants and many of the leading proponents of ID make a bedrock assumption which is utterly false. Their presupposition is that evolutionary theory is antithetical to a belief in the existence of a supreme being and to religion in general. Repeatedly in this trial, Plaintiffs' scientific experts testified that the theory of evolution represents good science, is overwhelmingly accepted by the scientific community, and that it in no way conflicts with, nor does it deny, the existence of a divine creator.

Outstanding. This will be an extra-special Christmas for everyone who cares about science.

*pops champagne*

Anyone?

"For reasons that follow, we conclude that the religious nature of ID would be readily apparent to an objective observer, adult or child."

Big win. Huge congrats to the people here who worked on the case -- you guys should really take a bow, b/c this opinion is evidence that you helped put on a great case before the judge. From this non-scientist (who at least knows a wolf in sheep's clothing when he sees it), Thank You for defending reason.

~ scott

The proper application of both the endorsement and Lemon tests to the facts of this case makes it abundantly clear that the Board's ID Policy violates the Establishment Clause. In making this determination, we have addressed the seminal question of whether ID is science. We have concluded that it is not, and moreover that ID cannot uncouple itself from its creationist, and thus religious, antecedents. Both Defendants and many of the leading proponents of ID make a bedrock assumption which is utterly false. Their presupposition is that evolutionary theory is antithetical to a belief in the existence of a supreme being and to religion in general. Repeatedly in this trial, Plaintiffs' scientific experts testified that the theory of evolution represents good science, is overwhelmingly accepted by the scientific community, and that it in no way conflicts with, nor does it deny, the existence of a divine creator. To be sure, Darwin's theory of evolution is imperfect. However, the fact that a scientific theory cannot yet render an explanation on every point should not be used as a pretext to thrust an untestable alternative hypothesis grounded in religion into the science classroom or to misrepresent well-established scientific propositions. The citizens of the Dover area were poorly served by the members of the Board who voted for the ID Policy. It is ironic that several of these individuals, who so staunchly and proudly touted their religious convictions in public, would time and again lie to cover their tracks and disguise the real purpose behind the ID Policy. With that said, we do not question that many of the leading advocates of ID have bona fide and deeply held beliefs which drive their scholarly endeavors. Nor do we controvert that ID should continue to be studied, debated, and discussed. As stated, our conclusion today is that it is unconstitutional to teach ID as an alternative to evolution in a public school science classroom. Those who disagree with our holding will likely mark it as the product of an activist judge. If so, they will have erred as this is manifestly not an activist Court. Rather, this case came to us as the result of the activism of an ill-informed faction on a school board, aided by a national public interest law firm eager to find a constitutional test case on ID, who in combination drove the Board to adopt an imprudent and ultimately unconstitutional policy. The breathtaking inanity of the Board's decision is evident when considered against the factual backdrop which has now been fully revealed through this trial. The students, parents, and teachers of the Dover Area School District deserved better than to be dragged into this legal maelstrom, with its resulting utter waste of monetary and personal resources.

— Judge Jones

The concept of intelligent design (hereinafter "ID"), in its current form, came into existence after the Edwards case was decided in 1987. For the reasons that follow, we conclude that the religious nature of ID would be readily apparent to an objective observer, adult or child. ... The overwhelming evidence at trial established that ID is a religious view, a mere re-labeling of creationism, and not a scientific theory.

"Big win. Huge congrats to the people here who worked on the case --- you guys should really take a bow, b/c this opinion is evidence that you helped put on a great case before the judge. From this non-scientist (who at least knows a wolf in sheep's clothing when he sees it), Thank You for defending reason."

I agree! Outstanding job by all involved! Thank You and Congratulations!

This is not restricted to the hamfisted approach in Dayton that the DI attempted to back away from as the trial neared, but aimed squarely at ID in general. A big win indeed.

After a searching review of the record and applicable caselaw, we find that while ID arguments may be true, a proposition on which the Court takes no position, ID is not science. We find that ID fails on three different levels, any one of which is sufficient to preclude a determination that ID is science. They are: (1) ID violates the centuries-old ground rules of science by invoking and permitting supernatural causation; (2) the argument of irreducible complexity, central to ID, employs the same flawed and illogical contrived dualism that doomed creation science in the 1980's; and (3) ID's negative attacks on evolution have been refuted by the scientific community. As we will discuss in more detail below, it is additionally important to note that ID has failed to gain acceptance in the scientific community, it has not generated peer-reviewed publications, nor has it been the subject of testing and research.

The Discovery Institute website is strangely silent....

I am literally jumping for joy here. Good news at last.

Do any of these rulings impact the cob county appeal?

ID's religious nature is evident because it involves a supernatural designer

The Discovery Institute website is strangely silent....

Wonderful news. Those of you who have stood against ignorance and superstition so long and so well, thank you.

The DI Response

Well done guys, I'm drinking a beer for you in England. A big, big win indeed; the Judge pulled no punches, in fact I don't think Lenny could have been much more scathing.
A nice present for Noodlemas indeed; although I expect us all to suffer withdrawl symptoms.
The next challenge is to start educating the public so this sort of nonsense doesn't crop up again and again - that's going to take a bit longer I fear, but at least the DI will have zero credibility if they continue to try to confuse the masses.
Judge Jones has given you some priceless quotes for years to come; and he's even answered some of Lenny's questions for the DI!

The DI response...

"The Dover decision is an attempt by an activist federal judge to stop the spread of a scientific idea and even to prevent criticism of Darwinian evolution through government-imposed censorship rather than open debate, and it won't work," said Dr. John West, Associate Director of the Center for Science and Culture at Discovery Institute, the nation's leading think tank researching the scientific theory known as intelligent design.

Reaching well beyond the immediate legal questions before him, Judge Jones offered wide-ranging and sometimes angry comments denouncing intelligent design and praising Darwinian evolution. "Judge Jones found that the Dover board violated the Establishment Clause because it acted from religious motives. That should have been the end to the case," said West. "Instead, Judge Jones got on his soapbox to offer his own views of science, religion, and evolution. He makes it clear that he wants his place in history as the judge who issued a definitive decision about intelligent design. This is an activist judge who has delusions of grandeur."

"In the larger debate over intelligent design, this decision will be of minor significance," added Discovery Institute attorney Casey Luskin. "As we've repeatedly stressed, the ultimate validity of intelligent will be determined not by the courts but by the scientific evidence pointing to design."

Dang, if I got my butt kicked as bad as the the DI did, I wouldn't talk tough and pretend I won with an inane press release.

Well done guys, I'm drinking a beer for you in England.

A big, big win indeed; the Judge pulled no punches, in fact I don't think Lenny could have been much more scathing.

I might add, in response to that last bit, that in the larger debate over what's science and what's not, attorney Luskin will be of zero significance.

.. proper beer of course Lenny! :>

as for the perjury charges, probably a good idea not to bother - why sully a magnificent decision like that with a little sideshow. Why go for pawns when you've got the queen?? -thy'd only go on about persecution of upstanding drug-taking members of the community.
Nah, just call them LIARS who LIED FOR THEIR FAITH and leave them with their reputations in tatters and no chance to answer back.

Congratulations Lenny! - and now when (if?) Sal comes back you can have fun pasting bits of the ruling into your questions.

I personally can't see many IDiots wanting to come here for more humiliation anymore.
Dembski seems to have been struck dumb by the way.

Congrats Lenny - and 'proper' beer of course!

I think the judge was wise to drop the opportunity for perjury charges. Why sully a magnificant ruling with a sideshow where upstanding, drug-taking, members of the community could cry religious persecution and confuse the issue.
Nah! just call them "LIARS THAT LIED FOR THEIR FAITH" and leave them with no come-back - far more cruel.

You can hve fun with Sal now - pasting bits of the ruling into your questions; although personally I don't see many IDiots coming back here to be humiliated.
Dembski's been struck dumb as far as I can see.

Well done again to all you guys who have been fighting the cause of reason over there - you should be proud of yourselves!!!!

A dark beer, I hope.

— Rev. Lenny

Ah, but once you've reached critical mass.... A barley pop is a barley pop is a barley pop.... Congrats to everyone!

I hear pencils frantically tapping paper over at the DI, desperate to determine when the Rapture will remove them from this humiliation....

If I weren't in a hotel returning from Opelika Alabama, where I've been at the NCAT for work, I would be tore up from the floor up.

Now I'm trying to think up a new backronym for D.I., something which conveys the general idea of 'obliterated'.

here's my favorite part so far:

"For the reasons that follow, we conclude that the religious nature of ID would be readily apparent to an objective observer, adult or child"

in the words of Li'l Jon, "goddam GODDAM"

To misquote Blade

"some people are always trying to skate uphill"

Reading these Judge Jones comments, he does everything but tell John West to kiss his ass.

We need to get over to CafePress and print some victory items.

how about:

Hey John West:

KISS MY ASS!

Here's to Judge John E. Jones

The right Man
in the right Place
at the right Time

Thank you.

What interests me the most is the relentless obsesssion with "the best explanation" for whatever. It seems obvious to me that the best explanation would always be one that cant possibly be disproven. In 21st century science "detecting design" will never be good enough; how is that design made manifest through a mechanism of action will always come up. This will require a redefinition of science to avoid this "straw man" as many design advocates refer to this untestability-unfalsifiability-unpublishability of original research issue. Mr. West must be slipping as he failed to mention how Darwinism is incapable of proving the origin of matter or life through blind random forces.

This is good news. Good work on the part of everyone involved.

This is not meant to ruin the celebratory mood here but I am reminded of the story with Galileo. As he was forced under penalty of death to recant his statements that the earth is not at the center of the solar system and that it moves, he got up and famously muttered in Latin, "and yet it moves!" So, despite the Court's decision, I am sure some history-conscious ID supporters out there are saying, "and yet it was intelligently designed!"

So now the status quo will be maintained in our schools. That's what this "victory" is all about. And that means that decades from now we will still find more than half of americans subscribing to the view that life in all its diversity appeared a mere few thousand years ago, as all studies indicate they believe today. Why would that change, if the status quo is maintained? I don't see much to celebrate in all this.

So now the status quo will be maintained in our schools. ...I don't see much to celebrate in all this.

that means that decades from now we will still find more than half of Americans subscribing to the view that life in all its diversity appeared a mere few thousand years ago, as all studies indicate they believe today. Why would that change, if the status quo is maintained? I don't see much to celebrate in all this.

So now the status quo will be maintained in our schools.

And that means that decades from now we will still find more than half of americans subscribing to the view that life in all its diversity appeared a mere few thousand years ago, as all studies indicate they believe today.

This is not meant to ruin the celebratory mood here but I am reminded of the story with Galileo. As he was forced under penalty of death to recant his statements that the earth is not at the center of the solar system and that it moves, he got up and famously muttered in Latin, "and yet it moves!" So, despite the Court's decision, I am sure some history-conscious ID supporters out there are saying, "and yet it was intelligently designed!"

As you know, the Wedge Strategy has been to replace science, as currently understood, with a new version compatible with their brand of religion. This decision is a serious blow to that strategy.

This is not meant to ruin the celebratory mood here but I am reminded of the story with Galileo. As he was forced under penalty of death to recant his statements that the earth is not at the center of the solar system and that it moves, he got up and famously muttered in Latin, "and yet it moves!" So, despite the Court's decision, I am sure some history-conscious ID supporters out there are saying, "and yet it was intelligently designed!"

— Carol