Why Kitzmiller is Not An "Activist" Decision

This may be a bit off-topic, but...here's the real importance of Judge Jones.

Science is a system of understanding physical reality which seeks to convince the rational skeptic with evidence and logical inferences, and without reference to the untestable supernatural.

There is a resemblance between science and the law. Courts often evaluate evidence and appeal to skeptical, rational analysis.

Judge Jones is an elderly church-going Republican, but also a reasonable man. He had little prior bias toward or knowledge of either current evotionary theory or "ID".

On this forum, we rarely see a neutral person. It's mainly educated and committed scientists versus ID peddlers.

Often a visitor claims to be "neutral" or "objective", but nearly always, they turn out to be creationists, trying to play a typical clumsy trick.

In Judge Jones, we see what happens when a truly neutral, reasonable, unbiased person is presented with both sides.

He or she concludes that science makes sense and creationism is a bunch of dishonest, ill-motivated hooey.

This may be a bit off-topic, but...here's the real importance of Judge Jones.

Science is a system of understanding physical reality which seeks to convince the rational skeptic with evidence and logical inferences, and without reference to the untestable supernatural.

There is a resemblance between science and the law. Courts often evaluate evidence and appeal to skeptical, rational analysis.

Judge Jones is an elderly church-going Republican, but also a reasonable man. He had little prior bias toward or knowledge of either current evotionary theory or "ID".

On this forum, we rarely see a neutral person. It's mainly educated and committed scientists versus ID peddlers.

Often a visitor claims to be "neutral" or "objective", but nearly always, they turn out to be creationists, trying to play a typical clumsy trick.

In Judge Jones, we see what happens when a truly neutral, reasonable, unbiased person is presented with both sides.

He or she concludes that science makes sense and creationism is a bunch of dishonest, ill-motivated hooey.

This may be a bit off-topic, but...here's the real importance of Judge Jones.

Science is a system of understanding physical reality which seeks to convince the rational skeptic with evidence and logical inferences, and without reference to the untestable supernatural.

There is a resemblance between science and the law. Courts often evaluate evidence and appeal to skeptical, rational analysis.

Judge Jones is an elderly church-going Republican, but also a reasonable man. He had little prior bias toward or knowledge of either current evotionary theory or "ID".

On this forum, we rarely see a neutral person. It's mainly educated and committed scientists versus ID peddlers.

Often a visitor claims to be "neutral" or "objective", but nearly always, they turn out to be creationists, trying to play a typical clumsy trick.

In Judge Jones, we see what happens when a truly neutral, reasonable, unbiased person is presented with both sides.

He or she concludes that science makes sense and creationism is a bunch of dishonest, ill-motivated hooey.

Timothy,

Thanks very much for the rational explanation of judicial review. It was a very succinct and informative post. Unfortunately, I think its strengths will be lost on most who cry "judicial activism" as their strengths don't often include rationality or informative argument. Though, I suppose we could try to redifne "information" so that their rants may become informative some how....

But, it does give us (me, at least) a point of reference to start the defence of Judge Jones's decision.

I should think it would be easy to make it impossible to send a form from the "Post a Comment box" inadvertantly more than once.

Many posters seem to have trouble with this.

A suggestion.

Add this to the javascript code:

var submitted=0;
function check_it() {

if(submitted) {
alert('This server can be slow.\n ' +
'Be patient. The server will likely respond in a few seconds.\n\n' +
'Thanks.');
return false;
}
submitted++;
return true;
}
########
Then add this to the submit tag :

###

(It would be more reliable just to checksum each comment at the server and reject duplicates.)

Science is a system of understanding physical reality which seeks to convince the rational skeptic with evidence and logical inferences, and without reference to the untestable supernatural.

A bit OT but why is the judicial branch the only option these days? This was settled 150 yrs. ago. If the creation/ID faction were smart, they would unearth the best of the rhetoric from those times instead of this ID bullshit, most of it was a lot better.
Another kind of 'judicial activisim' is now under way by the current FISA judges, and about time too!

Norman Doering -

Apologies to all for the double post and the needlessly harsh closing line before I begin.

Norman, I don't entirely get your point, but...

1) No, not yet. Technically, this would be more of an "intelligently modified" organism, at any rate, something of an extreme case of a domesticated species. This work has nothing to do with "abiogenesis", by the way.

2) If you are a creationist, this would seem to be the ultimate example of the adage that "whatever happens, creationists will always claim that everything 'supports' design". Venter's work gets overhyped (he makes sure it does), but here we have an example of mainstream science being successfully applied. There is no hint of a magical, unidentifiable "designer", on the contrary, everyone involved is a clearly identifiable human being.

Your comment (however it was intended) can serve to illustrate the faulty "heads I win, tails you lose" logic of creationists. Humans can't "make new bacteria" - bacteria must have been designed magically. Humans can "make new bacteria" - proof that bacteria were intelligently designed.

This paradigm predicts nothing, explains nothing, can never be tested, can never be fruitfully debated with one who insists on it. It is the antithesis of science, in which ideas are critically and skeptically tested. It also leads to very bad theology and ethical behavior in many cases, as Judge Jones pointed out.

Norman Doering: Okay, using those mental tools would you say that this: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTG... ...will constitute evidence that there is at least one intelligently designed organism?

The funny thing about that news item is that if IDers try to co-opt it as evidence for design they will be supporting one of the very things the fundies hate, that is support for repoductive medicine/biology/genetics.

Okay, using those mental tools would you say that this: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTG... ...will constitute evidence that there is at least one intelligently designed organism?

— Norman Doering

Speaking of Dover, Buckingham and Bonsell are now being investigated for perjury. Prosecutor seeks perjury evidence

Just a few days ago, I was at lunch with several people, including two co-workers (one current, one former) who typify the kind of white middle-class ignorance/arrogance that drives many cries of "judicial activism". These guys subscribe to precisely the ideology presented in this article: that judicial review should be abolished, and misbehaving government can simply be voted out of office.

They cannot be reasoned with. And they both make 6-figure salaries. Nothing like a little comfort to insulate people from the outside world, leaving their minds free to dream up all kinds of crap.

Yeah, but - and here's the line of thought that wakes me up in the middle of the night:

If you abolish judicial review, what's to stop the legislature from removing your right to vote them out of office?

Just a quick comment to praise the ever-sharp eye-for-relevant-news items that Jason Spaceman has evolved!