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ID-Day delayed

Posted 12 January 2005 by Nick Matzke

↗ The current version of this post is on the live site: https://pandasthumb.org/archives/2005/01/idday-delayed.html

http://media.mnginteractive.com/media/paper138/Dover_Debate.jpgThe ID lesson in Dover was originally scheduled to occur tomorrow, on Thursday.  It now appears that it won’t occur until next Monday or Tuesday.  So we are still at ID-Day minus 5.

York Daily Record story: Dover to discuss “design” next week

Special section at the YDR: Dover Biology

York Dispatch: Dover delays biology class statement

The letters on the York Dispatch webpage are a bit harder to find, but there have been some excellent ones:

See also the many previous posts on Dover on The Panda’s Thumb.

15 Comments

Bayesian Bouffant · 12 January 2005

From the link: Dover to discuss 'design' next week

Attorneys for the plaintiffs had intended to seek a temporary injunction last week to keep intelligent design out of the biology classes. However, they were thwarted when school board members denied, in depositions, statements attributed to them last summer by both The York Dispatch and the York Daily Record/York Sunday News. An attorney for the plaintiffs, Eric Rothschild of Pepper Hamilton, said lawyers were surprised by the denials of what they thought was an "established set of events." Rothschild said the inconsistencies would not have been easily resolved in a short hearing. However, he said, he expects the plaintiffs' attorneys will be successful in the long run when they take the case to court in the spring.

What's this? I do hope those board members are keeping the 10 commandments in mind. I also hope one of those reporters was packing a tape recorder.

Great White Wonder · 12 January 2005

I know it's an off-topic post, but check it out: http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/01/12/belly.of.the.best.ap/index.html

DENVER, Colorado (AP) -- Villagers digging in China's rich fossil beds have uncovered the preserved remains of a tiny dinosaur in the belly of a mammal, a startling discovery for scientists who have long believed early mammals couldn't possibly attack and eat a dinosaur.

Really? Not even baby dinosaurs? I never heard a scientist state that proposition quite so boldly. In any event, these larger mammals had to come from earlier mammals. Were they smaller or larger than these? No one knows ... yet.

Scientists say the animal's last meal probably is the first proof that mammals hunted small dinosaurs some 130 million years ago. It contradicts conventional evolutionary theory that early mammals were timid, chipmunk-sized creatures that scurried in the looming shadow of the giant reptiles.

Yeah, like that's the linchpin of conventional evolutionary theory: early mammals lived in dinosaur shadows. That's why their fur was so dark. Camouflage, you know. More accurately, it provides evidence that the early mammal was more diverse then previously known based on the extant fossil record before this latest discovery. Is it so hard to write accurately? The mainstream media = lazy.

In this case, the mammal was about the size of a large cat, and the victim was a 5-inch "parrot dinosaur." A second mammal fossil found at the same site claims the distinction of being the largest early mammal ever found. It's about the size of a modern dog, a breathtaking 20 times larger than most mammals living in the early Cretaceous Period.

As far as we know as of this morning, anyway.

The remains still are recognizable, indicating that R. robustus ripped its prey like a crocodile, but probably had not developed the ability to chew food like more advanced mammals.

Sounds like a transitional species... ;)

"We can still see articulated limb bones," Meng said. "It must have swallowed food in large hunks without being chewed."

Sounds like my cat.

"It's possible that poisonous volcanic gas killed the animals when they were sleeping," Meng said. "Then there was a catastrophic explosion that buried the whole thing."

Volcanic gas? Maybe the mysterious alien beings who created all the life on earth were sick of watching those species fighting so they put them to sleep. Why the liberal bias???? Teach the controversy!!!

Bayesian Bouffant · 12 January 2005

You should post that in the Onyate Man thread.

Great White Wonder · 12 January 2005

You know, if I was in this high school I'd be pissed as hell at the Johnsonite Christians for pulling this stunt.

I'd probably bring a bunch of Bible-debunking literature to class or a stack of papers showing where websites can be found which trash "ID theory" and its peddlers. Of course, if someone simply handed me that material, I wouldn't have to take time out of my lunch hour to create it.

Are there any thoughtful students enrolled in biology classes at Dover who understand what this "controversy" is all about?

Flint · 12 January 2005

GWW:

Are there any thoughtful students enrolled in biology classes at Dover who understand what this "controversy" is all about?

Maybe I'm in a bad mood today, but I know the parents of these students voted in the current school board, and I know that about 98% of peoples' beliefs essentially match their parents' beliefs. So I fear they do understand -- this controversy is a straight battle between good and evil. Eating of the tree of knowledge is a sin. So the case is pretty open and shut.

Ed Darrell · 12 January 2005

I wonder how many of the citizens voted in the school board election in Dover. Anybody have the statistics?

I'll bet it's another case of evil winning because good folk went to the kids' soccer games that day instead of voting . . .

Great White Wonder · 12 January 2005

I know that about 98% of peoples' beliefs essentially match their parents' beliefs

An impossibly vague assertion but I'll still call you on it: baloney.

Flint · 12 January 2005

GWW:

Maybe it is baloney. So where do you think creationists come from? Is it decreed in heaven? Indoctrinated in churches? But who selectes children's churches? What's your speculation?

Alex Merz · 12 January 2005

"Meanwhile, it seems, a member of the administration will read the intelligent design statement to the students.

"That's an egregious response, directed by a school board obviously hell-bent on having its way imposing religious strictures on a secular and public institution."

Hell-bent. Nice turn of phrase.

Great White Wonder · 12 January 2005

So where do you think creationists come from?

Generally speaking? I think it's the default position for anyone who believes in God that didn't get a decent education. And I think that most people believe in God, initially, because their parents do. But your claim was far broader in scope. You said: "I know that about 98% of peoples' beliefs essentially match their parents' beliefs". Now, I'll grant you that this is correct in the mundane sense that 98% of everyone's beliefs are similar because we're all humans, we all breathe air, eat food, etc. But if we're talking about "beliefs" as they relate to the relative merits of scientific, historical, social and/or artistic claims, I don't buy this 98% similarity business. I think that kids do not accept all of their parents (or any adults)beliefs quite so readily, especially high school kids. Don't you remember: "never trust anyone over 40"? Isn't this one of the facts that is being exploited by the creationists peddlers to lure kids over to their side? That scientists are "suppressing the evidence" and "keeping the truth" out of schools? It's a bizarre take on "hey kid, don't believe everything The Man has to tell you." I say "bizarre" because in this case the advice to rebel is part of a script that is being recited by people who are among the least tolerant and most scientifically ignorant individuals on the freaking planet! I'm reminded of that hilarious Jack Chick tract on evolution where the kids "revolt" and make a fool out of their biology teacher. A brilliant piece of propoganda. Like most of the best propoganda, of course, it's a disgusting lie which benefits only the propogandists.

Bob Maurus · 12 January 2005

GWW,

That was, "Never trust anyone over 30."

David Wilson · 13 January 2005

In comment #13503

Maybe it is baloney. So where do you think creationists come from? Is it decreed in heaven? Indoctrinated in churches? But who selectes children's churches? What's your speculation?

— Flint
Judging by their own accounts, a lot of them are converted atheists.

Bayesian Bouffant · 13 January 2005

So where do you think creationists come from?

Abiogenesis? Virgin birth? Clay? Rib? So many possibilities...

Great White Wonder · 18 January 2005

Wasn't today ID-Day?

At last, those Dover evangelicals will able to sleep peacefully knowing that their children's soft impressionabe minds are protected from cold hard scientific facts about biology.

RBH · 19 January 2005

Yup, today was ID Day, and the administrator who read it ducked questions from the kids about it:

Biology teacher Jennifer Miller said although she was able to make a smooth transition to her evolution lesson after the statement was read, some students were upset that administrators would not entertain any questions about intelligent design. "They were told that if you have any questions, to take it home," Miller said.

From here. Sure did add to those kids' biology knowledge, huh? RBH